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Does anyone have any particular strategies that they use to get their fingers around the almost impossibly fast phrases in brass band music?

I start off slowly, and then try to gradually speed it up. However, I can never get up to the speed that the music demands. Is there a more effective way to go about learning these fast phrases?

FatCat wrote:Does anyone have any particular strategies that they use to get their fingers around the almost impossibly fast phrases in brass band music?

I start off slowly, and then try to gradually speed it up. However, I can never get up to the speed that the music demands. Is there a more effective way to go about learning these fast phrases?

Split them up. Team work.

Sometimes you can hold 4th valve down for the whole passage and the new fingering pattern is easier. Some notes will be sound lame but at least in tune. (if playing a compensator)

Sometimes you can pull 3rd long (if no 2-3 notes) or 1st long (if no 1 notes) and just use 3 valves for the passage. (if playing a front action)

Sometimes it detracts nothing from the music to bunt and take it up an octave, playing it all on 2 fingers.

Use a lot of air. Blow through the passage. In a sixteenth note passage in 4/4 the most important notes are on the beat, the next most important are the off beats and finally the notes in between. Try playing just the first sixteenth note and get them perfectly in time with the metronome. Then add the off beats so that the passage sounds like a group of eight notes. Then add in the rest of the notes. Always keep everything in time. No matter what if you slow down it won't sound good. Sometimes if you just play the first and third note of the 4 note pattern it works well. Good luck, Phil

This is a bit crazy, but if the problem is just finger kung-fu, I have had success supplementing by practicing the fingering patterns with a metronome and using my left hand (not on the horn). It's clumsy and never gets all the way up to speed, but this seems to engage the brain in a different way and makes a big difference.

What piece and passage?

Thanks for your suggestions everyone. I will be sure to implement some of your tips into my practice.

tank wrote:What piece and passage?

REM Scapes by Thomas Doss; I'm playing Eb Bass

I can get my fingers around most of the semiquaver passages, its just the sextuplets towards the end that I really struggle to play at tempo.

Ghost it!

How come I knew that Thomas Doss' name would be associated with this thread ... !

+1s to Split the passage up, memorize, and air. When splitting it up, we usually try to overlap each other so there is no lull in the sound. It certainly helps me match my sectionmates sound when coming in as though we're like one person.

Doss' other fun piece is Spiriti and here is one of crazy passages in the Bb part (4/4 time somewhere near a speed of 130ish bpm at mf):
And finishes down to the pedal Bb concert.
Spiriti and REM Scapes are awesome pieces nonetheless!

Scales until they are automatic should help.

I always seem to have methods nobody else uses. For me, learning it from the back end is the most effective thing I have ever found.
That means, start with the last two notes and play them up to speed. Until they are easy. Add the previous two notes and repeat. Until easy. Etc. You can learn amazingly difficult things this way in an amazingly short period of time. Then once you can do it, the repetition over and over and OVER is the way to be able to do it under stress. if it gets iffy at some point, do the entire process over and find the glitch(es) and fix them.