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I should probably start to look into F tubas, as i will need one if i go to Eastman most likely. Don Harry wanted me to start looking at them. Just wondering if there are any pretty decent F Tubas out there that i should look into. I would prefer piston valves, but rotary is ok.

I've heard a LOT of good things about the Miraphone 181. They're worth a try.

The Meinl Weston 45SLP is also good, although I'd recommend trying a few, they weren't very consistent between different horns.

I have a MW 45slp and couldn't be happier, its really a great horn.

TMB

There are so many good ones out there that you just need to start playing any that you can get your hands on!

Another awesome piston F is the Meinl-Weston 2182(no not the tiny horn). Its the solo counterpart to the 45 SLP which is a big German F with orchestra in mind. I had a 45 SLP before my 2182 and the 45 SLP is definitely not what you want in terms of a solo instrument by comparison. So the real question is solo F, or orchestral F. I'd imagine solo(smaller) F so the piston options are much more limited so don't rule out the rotary tubas immediately.
My 2 cents on the subject from someone who has owned both kinds of F's and is finishing his freshman year at ASU.

DP wrote:What does your teacher Mr. Harry recommend?

I'm guessing whatever he likes and feels good playing just like any good teacher would say!

I've been happy with my Miraphone 181. I believe there was a used one floating around in the for sale section for a pretty decent price...

However I completely agree with all of Bloke's suggestions about how to shop for an F tuba. Follow those and I'm sure you'll find one that really suits your needs.

bloke wrote:Playing the F tuba is such a foreign experience at first that it would be really nice to be able to play someone else's F tuba (or two or three someone elses' F tubas) for a few weeks/months prior to shopping. It would be nice to encounter some incredibly generous colleagues who might allow you to step into their practice rooms and play their F tubas while they're off resting in the break room/hallway for a few minutes. It would be very easy to buy a bad instrument. As most F tubas are indeed bad, combining this unfortunate factor with a complete lack of judgement would just about guarantee ownership of a bad instrument...On the other hand, bad instruments are bought and sold every day, and after you gained some experience on your first nearly-inevitably-bad F tuba, you could then search with more insight and while selling it to another F tuba newbie. Finally, if you limit your search to "piston valve" F tubas, you will only be considering about 1/5 of the available models - further increasing the chances of purchasing a bad instrument.

This is probably the best F tuba advice I've ever seen. Had I taken this approach, I would have had a much better initial F tuba experience because I would had enough experience on and understanding of F tubas to draw real conclusions for myself and I would have been able to avoid purchasing that "bad instrument" that (as you say) is all to easy to end up purchasing. Instead I hastily purchased one of the more popular rotor F tubas only to sell it a couple years later (I think I more than gave it a chance) because (to use your words) it was a "bad instrument" for me for a variety of reasons. I ended up being able to buy myself a fantastic F tuba, which just so happens to be one of those not-so-popular-these-days big piston valved models that you're not so into. So I'm not in vogue...oh well...I'm keeping mine.

heck, thats even good CC tuba advice. I know there are a lot more excellent CC tubas out there, but making the switch from BBb to CC right away can be really wierd, and the circumstances surrounding the switch made me personally really nervous. I didnt have a CC to play on before I made the switch, so it was basically like jumping straight into the deep end.

I was worried. What if the tuba I choose turns out to be really a klunker when I get it home? What if this turns out to be a huge waste of time/money?

So I did things really backwards because I didnt have access to a real tuba player until recently to take lessons from. I played a BBb up until now. Lazy tuba performance was my major. I rode on the tails of my talent all through college up till now because no one really pushed me to excel, and I had no reason to. I am the big fish in a little sea. THAT WAS REALLY BAD!! So here I am in my "senior" year of college (I will be here one more year) learning CC Tuba, thinking about grad schools, just purchased a CC when I probably should be thinking F or Eb...

So consider yourself fortunate...You, from my standpoint, are in an enviable position. Dont worry about it, youll figure stuff out.

Man, theres my life story.....

What does your teacher Mr. Harry recommend?

I'm not attending Eastman yet, they need to give me money first. People have just been telling me to begin looking at F horns. of course wherever i go, i will consult with my teacher first.

When I studied with Don Harry, he recommended the YFB621. If you want an easy to play F with piston valves, that is the way to go. Of course, that was a long time ago and there are many other options now. I have an older rotary F now that has a more "interesting" timbre, but also takes a little more concertration to play; if I wanted an F for mainly as a quintet horn the 621 or its big brother (sister?) the 822 would be preferable.

I've played the Miraphone 181s and was very impressed. I almost bought one. I stayed away from MW due to bad experiences with the school's MW 45. I went with my current axe, a Yamaha 822, because it sounded great. I felf it was more of an all-around F tuba that would meet the needs of solo, qunitet, orchestra, and small ensemble. To go along with the nice sound, the valves are awesome. Very smooth. The horn overall fit me better physically.

I probably would've been just as happy with a 181. I just found a great horn, at the right time (and at the right price!).

Will

bloke wrote:- You may or may not be able to play a good instrument very well at first. "Feel" is just about the most deceptive characteristic that an instrument can possess - particularly if the "feel" is "nice". Always keep in mind that music is aural and not tactile.

Of course. But if an instrument feels so bad that you can't play it, then it doesn't matter what it sounds like. For us mortals, there needs to be a balance in there somewhere, it seems to me.

When I added the B&S to my F tuba fleet, I was looking for a particular sound, and for noticeably more projection than I was able to get from the Yamaha 621. I didn't just want a bigger 621. What I got doesn't feel as good as the Yamaha, but it sounds and projects better. That anecdote supports your advice. But when I was trying out the half-dozen or so F's leading up to purchasing the B&S, I found several that felt downright bad. I put them back down. Who needs a tuba they feel like they have to fight all the time?

Rick "thinking a tuba isn't great because it feels great, but it may be bad if it feels bad" Denney

hmm. I think I've tootled on a sum total of 8 F tubas.

The first one was an older 4+1 standard name brand I can't think of now; it was quite small. I thought I'd be able to play it but wasn't ready to put out the $2800 or so it would have cost, and someone else bought it. IIRC the low C was difficult but playable, but I might not have noticed at all without a tuba embouchure in place yet.

The second one was an old MW 46; the angle of the leadpipe was such that I had to put it sideways on my lap in order to have my neck still connected to my shoulders in a reasonable fashion. I could not play the low C for anything. Still no tuba embouchure to speak of. This tuba supposedly had been owned and played by somebody in the Philadelphia Phil for many years. (Torchinski? Is that someone's name? yes I know I'm ignorant about tuba players.)

Next...I play tested a YFB 621. It did not work ergonomically, and I found the sound bland. The low C felt pretty much like any other note.

Next....somebody let me toot on his MW SLP. It was ergonomically impossible and required more air than I had at the time.

Next....I bought my MW 182. Formerly owned by Scott Mendoker; it has some intonation issues, especially the C in the staff is really sharp and the low C is the usual problem. I still don't get a really good sound on that low C, but understand it is my fault due to lack of a completely relaxed embouchure. I really like the sound of it, and ergonmically it is perfect.

Later....I got to blow on a brand new R. Meinl F tuba, that did not play appreciably differently from my 182. Somebody else had it on trial.

A couple summers ago I borrowed a 4-valve Amati in Bloomington, IN, to play with horn octets. It had a nice sound and an easier low C than my 182. Other than lacking the 5th valve, I couldn't tell a lot of difference between it and my 182.

I got to play somebody's B&S F tuba, an older Symphonie. It had a lighter sound than my 182 and a somewhat easier low C. And required more air.

So....all these, except for the YFB, did not play all that differently from each other. The worst was the MW 46, I couldn't really tell on the SLP, and the other rotaries were pretty similar.

So I don't know if I've never played on a good F or not!! Bloke, how do I tell? How will a good F come and smack me on the back and say "HEY! I'm GOOD!"

MA, who generally notices intonation variances as playing difficulties since the embouchure plays the pitch it wants to anyway

MaryAnn wrote:The second one was an old MW 46 ... This tuba supposedly had been owned and played by somebody in the Philadelphia Phil for many years. (Torchinski? Is that someone's name? yes I know I'm ignorant about tuba players.)

Abe Torchinsky is someone you should probably know something about. Here are a couple of links for starters:

http://www.iteaonline.org/historymateri ... torchinsky'

http://www.encoremupub.com/abe.htm

Hope this helps!

an old MW 46

I have one of those old MW 46's and I love it for the sound when I need something that projects. I use it in quintet at times (Renaissance and Baroque stuff) but use my small Weril CC more now. I found if I don't play it often (which is quite often unfortunately) I forget how to play it. I always think about upgrading it, but then I play it and always decide to keep it.