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A good horn? I've seen a couple high school marching bands with these. Looks like a plus with the 4 valves. Are these really practical for high school marching band?

Uli wrote:

Will wrote:A good horn?

.......Has a wonderfull warm and full sound. Gorgeous!

No doubt that this thing is a fine circular Kaisertuba!

But as it cannot have its bell taken off, it is a huge challenge for young people to handle it without remodelling the traditionally softer and thinner Czech brass.

Carolus Marximus Dentfearingus

The F version looks like this:


The Eb version has a slightly wider 450mm = 17.717" bell, but still retains the bore of 18.2mm = 0.717" (the numbers are no joke! Just add 17" to the bore, and you have your Eb bell diameter according to Czechomaths):

CHL 611-4 V.F.Cerveny EEb helicon, 4 valves, bore 18.2mm, bell 450mm, lacquer.
CHL 621-4 V.F.Cerveny F helicon, 4 valves, bore 18.2mm, bell 420mm, lacquer.
CHL 631-4 V.F.Cerveny BBb helicon, 4 valves, bore 20.2mm, bell 500mm, lacquer.

Carolus Marximus Calculandus

JCRaymo wrote:....but they were also by order only.

Isn't it so with just about all tubas-helicons-sousaphones?

Very few makers want to build to their own storage due to the costs of interest. And only the very largest brass retailers dare to carry a selection of these huge-o-phones.

Orders are only given by dealers, if there is an obvious market. If sales expectations are not met, the "flunkers" are blown out at discount prices. Nobody has neither the space nor the funding to keep slow moving samples of such bulky items.

Carolus Marximus Businessus

Ok... about this Cerveny BBb Helicon. I bought one brand new, was delivered about Christmas in a well padded carton on a wood pallet. Mouthpiece included was a brass silverplated 24AWI. It fits nicely in the receiver, but it has a larger shank diameter than my ConnHelleberg mouthpiece. The Helicon is light weight... about 16 lbs. I can pick it up in one hand, grab some tubing with the other and swing it over my head. Watch it going through doors!!! That bell really sits out to the left.

It is a ferocious condenser. Spit collects in the first curve under the mouthpiece and receiver. It is easy to simply dip the horn down and then up... liquid goes past the valves and ends up down at the spitvalve.

I've had a difficult time with tuning. First try was way sharp. I got some sousaphone tuning bits that fit the mouthpiece and receiver... Bb began to come into tune. The more I played the better it got. But 4th valve for low C was miles sharp and there was not enough length on the slide to make the correction. I found I could swap out 1st and 4th slides. This gave me good tuning on 4th valve and 1st was pretty good. Continued practice on scales and Arbans kept tuning getting better. The 2+3 combination isn't yet as good as desired. 1st valve is fine for C and Eb but Ab is kind of sharp. Low Bnatural is a persistent problem. Interestingly, the Low F, G and Ab (3 and 4 lines below Bass Staff) are more likely to be in tune for me than on my Yamaha YBB641. All the tuning slides are easily under your left hand ... nice design that. I've kept playing the thing and last week I got disgusted and decided to start over. Put the tuning bits on the shelf, the 24AWI in the
receiver and started into Arbans.... lo and behold the tuning was suddenly better... not consistently right but much better. And without the bits the sound was more consistent, not such a tendency to be muffled. I think this is a horn with which you have to mentally hear each note before you try to produce it. I'm guessing that is maybe the case on many of the older European designs.

I like the tone. It's not raw and brassy. I can't blat or blitz the tone because the tone that follows simply falls apart. Its great to play softly. I'm using it in a Dixieland group and this
tone fits in very nicely. In the community concert band the tuning problems become very apparent. I won't see how it is in a parade till the end of May. But I do know that I can get
a nice ff bass line going with it.

The valves are smooth and easy... it goes from note to note like flying. Playing through the jazz book of lead sheet tunes is a real pleasure. (Anybody remember Polkadots and Moonbeams? )

I already picked up the first ding .... the sheetmetal is thin. If you grab the tubing down under the valve paddles you can easily bend it out of alignment. I am learning not to grab
hold of anything that can give a little.

I like it.... I'll like it more if my tuning continues to improve.

OldBandsman wrote:I already picked up the first ding .... the sheetmetal is thin. If you grab the tubing down under the valve paddles you can easily bend it out of alignment. I am learning not to grab hold of anything that can give a little.

Doesn't seem like a practical solution for high school marching band. But I wonder how that high school I saw handled it? Maybe it was just extra care on the part of the students. It did look awesome though. A line of 5 to 6 silver helicons!

...and a HUGE, warm sound as well.

About big tone... I took it out in the back yard yesterday... wow... you shuld hear a solid ff tone echo off houses 3 and 4 doors down the block.... parading might turn out to be fun!