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Hey all! My girlfriend is a band director at a high school here in WV with the soon possibility of 120 kids. The tuba players they have all want contrabasses and not sousas. I'm a sousa fan myself. I've played tuba for 15 years and I like the looks and whatnot of a sousa but I will say the sound of a contrabass is better. Just my opinion. Anyways, the real question is this. They have about 5 Yamaha silver sousas. Would it be realistic to trade thoughs in for about 3 or 4 contrabasses? Just curious. All input would be great. These kids love DCI stuff as well as most brass players. My only concern is what if she gets a kid down the road who is a kick butt player but yet cant hold the contrabass but a sousa would be better suited for them then she doesn't have a sousa and the kid be forced in a sense to play baritone or something. Just my mind thinking.

Thanks!

mlorrison wrote:Hey all! My girlfriend is a band director at a high school here in WV with about 120 kids. The tuba players they have all want contrabasses and not sousas. I'm a sousa fan myself. I've played tuba for 15 years and I like the looks and whatnot of a sousa but I will say the sound of a contrabass is better. Just my opinion. Anyways, the real question is this. They have about 5 Yamaha silver sousas. Would it be realistic to trade thoughs in for about 3 or 4 contrabasses?

Who's running the show? Want does not always trump need. Besides, all of those tuba players will be gone in a couple of years.

that is true.... she likes the contras better anyways. I was just seeing what peoples opinions on them were and how to go about trading, not critics

mlorrison wrote:Hey all! My girlfriend is a band director at a high school here in WV with about 120 kids.

That's the perfect size for a marching band!!

We've discussed the virtues of sousas and contras in the past. The general vote is sousas are better ergonomically and for sound. Buy all the tuba players matching Kelly mouthpieces and tell them to play sousas because there is no money to trade them in on contras. Assuming the sousas are playable, you will be much happier in the long run. You could even get some bell covers with the school colors and or mascot. That will make the players special.

I will have to agree that ergonomically they would be better but as far as sound, I like contras better but love the looks of a sousaphone. just so much more you can do with a sousa feel. Thanks for your in put. All in put with be used to make a better decision down the road. Also the sousaphones they have now all play and look good.

mlorrison wrote: Also the sousaphones they have now all play and look good.

So there is no problem!!

Besides, show bands don't play contras.

There ARE a show band, aren't they??

They are not a show band. They do competitions. There is no problem she is just thinking of kids, sound, and look. This is a open discussion with her and no decisions are being made. Just seeing pros and cons.

Generally, I'm a big fan of contras. If I could march one in my HS, that would be great. However, for the rest of my section I think it would be a disaster. First of all, they already complain about shoulder pain with the sousa, just imagine contras (PLEASE, for the love of God, if you decide to get contras don't get Jupiters; they're heavy as S***). Also, think about the durability of the two instruments: Contras are built for highly-disciplined Corps-folk who sign an agreement to keep their horn looking nice, and are taught how to keep their horn in peak condition by a professional. Sousaphones are built for school bands, where you don't necessarily have a professional watching the tubas at all times, and nobody is teaching the tubas how to care for their horns. Sousas are built to be abused by HS band kids, contras are not.

largobone wrote:Generally, I'm a big fan of contras. If I could march one in my HS, that would be great. However, for the rest of my section I think it would be a disaster. First of all, they already complain about shoulder pain with the sousa, just imagine contras (PLEASE, for the love of God, if you decide to get contras don't get Jupiters; they're heavy as S***). Also, think about the durability of the two instruments: Contras are built for highly-disciplined Corps-folk who sign an agreement to keep their horn looking nice, and are taught how to keep their horn in peak condition by a professional. Sousaphones are built for school bands, where you don't necessarily have a professional watching the tubas at all times, and nobody is teaching the tubas how to care for their horns. Sousas are built to be abused by HS band kids, contras are not.

Having spent time in a shop, I will tell you that Contras are destroyed just as often as sousaphones. Both are built TO BE PLAYED, not destroyed.

I like the contra style tuba too. I have the unpopular-on-TN opinion that sousaphones look ridiculous, and have been duly scolded for it in the past. (And obviously what things look like makes a difference in marching band.) There's a reason unpopular politicians don't get followed around with a contra or an upright tuba.

HOWEVER, I am also of the opinion that it would be short-sighted to make that kind of decision based on the preferences of a particular group of kids she happens to have at the moment. The time to think about this is when the program is ready in every sense to replace the sousas.

And...at least on my horn, if you set the 3rd valve slide to be in-tune, you get 2-3 in-tune as well. The sharp 1-2 is no longer needed except as an alternate fingering.

If you decide on going with the marching tuba route, here are my experiences with a few horns.

Yamaha YBB202M
- Lightweight, plays in tune
- Great resale market
- can find used from lots of drum corps
- is the ideal horn for HS players due to their weight/cost

King 1151
- Bell front heavy, will tire out the player faster
- intonation is all over the place

Jupiter Quantam Marching tuba
- Heaviest horn on the market
- plays stuffy
- intonation was pretty questionable on a lot of notes

Kanstul Marching Tubas
- Plays fine
- also one of the heaviest horns on the market
- resale market doesn't really exist on these horns

Dynasty
- stay away from them, in the marching activity they're called dyNASTYS
- horns were known to fall apart, tuning was all over the place
- I don't think they make marching brass anymore?

tl;dr
I like the Yamahas, they play in tune, are well balanced and lightweight and are probably the best selling marching tuba on the market.

Michael Bush wrote:I like the contra style tuba too. I have the unpopular-on-TN opinion that sousaphones look ridiculous, and have been duly scolded for it in the past.

As ridiculous as a marching band with no spats??

No, I don't think so!!

Three Valves wrote:

Michael Bush wrote:I like the contra style tuba too. I have the unpopular-on-TN opinion that sousaphones look ridiculous, and have been duly scolded for it in the past.

As ridiculous as a marching band with no spats??

No, I don't think so!!

When I was in high school (1979-82) we wore spats and marched shoulder tubas (Conn 15J, which I wouldn't recommend). Not exactly the best of both worlds, but at least some of both.

Three Valves wrote:

Michael Bush wrote:I like the contra style tuba too. I have the unpopular-on-TN opinion that sousaphones look ridiculous, and have been duly scolded for it in the past.

As ridiculous as a marching band with no spats??
No, I don't think so!!

I still have my pair of white vinyl marching spats and my grey formal wear spats. And yes, I am one who does the scolding. Sousa had J. W. Pepper make the original sousaphone bell up as a concert instrument, then Conn pointed the bell forward for marching. So there are three ways to have marching low brass:

1) British-style slings to hold a tuba in front of you, which make you look like "Mr. Mom."
2) Bazooka-style "contras" that to me look more ridiculous than a sousaphone; and
3) The time-honored, designed-for-the-purpose, a century and a quarter of development and perfection, will work for everything except the most ridiculous tight formation field marching routines, SOUSAPHONE!

And yes, I have marched more than my share of both street parades and field shows with various makes and models of souzys.

Long after the contras have been dropped, banged around, and generally destroyed, a souzy may show a few scars and dents, but it will still be playing. The middle school where I rehearse with community band still has - get this - not only a real 36K and a King, but a real MARTIN souzy. For middle school! Now, just how many decades old do you think that is? And still going strong!

Yes. Ditch the idea of a contra and go with the best: a souzy.

Thank you all! I appreciate it. I failed to mention that one reason for the possibility of switching would be the possibility of having convertible marching tubas that was they same contras can be used during concert band season.
Its hard telling what will happen, if anything. Just wanted to get some insight!

mlorrison wrote:Thank you all! I appreciate it. I failed to mention that one reason for the possibility of switching would be the possibility of having convertible marching tubas that was they same contras can be used during concert band season.
Its hard telling what will happen, if anything. Just wanted to get some insight!

IMHO, those convertible tubas are not contras and won't sound the same, nor are they as comfortable. My HS had some of the Yamaha convertible tubas in a nice bright silver that the school bought when it was opened so that they could save money... "One horn to do the job of two! Now to buy fancier stuff for the athletics department... " My band director traded those away for some old sousas from some other school in a neighboring district because those convertible horns are awkward to hold (contra valves are usually angled about halfway between the bell and the player and convertible tubas have the valves facing toward the bell--see pictures below) and did not project as well as a sousa. The convertible tuba, or at least all of the ones I have played, are generally student tubas that are made to be economic by serving more than one purpose instead of great at sounding good in either setting. I'd get sousas which will sound bigger and project better outdoors (not to mention are usually cheaper than real contras) and use horns that were only designed for concert use in a concert. If you have to use one horn for both settings, use the sousa in doors... This worked for a lot of guys here back when they were in school and sousas will sound better indoors than a convertible outdoors.

Contras look cool (as do convertibles for that matter) and I remember wanted to be cool and do horn snaps with the rest of the brass just like the drum cops when I was younger, but my director always told me: "I'm not wasting the schools money on that; you pay for them and you can have them." Best of luck with the decision.

Contra:
Convertible:

Being both a tuba player and a sailor,

the "convertible marching tuba" reminds me of the "motorsailer"

capable of both motoring as well as sailing,

poorly!!

iiipopes wrote: 2) Bazooka-style "contras" that to me look more ridiculous than a sousaphone; and

Michael Bush wrote: There's a reason unpopular politicians don't get followed around with a contra or an upright tuba.