TubeNet

BBb tubas are commonly used in bands that play in a great variety of weather conditions.
Before electric pianos became common we frequently needed a lot of tuning slide on gigs because some pianos were quite flat. But a long tuning slide does tend to create intonation issues.
CC and F tubas are commonly used in concert halls with more standardized temperature, in groups that always tune to the same pitch, and by players who are wiling to have their instruments modified if necessary.

My tuning slide is only about four inches.

The third valve slide is over eight.

Shouldn't that be reversed??

That 2145 main slide is downright l-o-n-g compared to the tuning slide on a Getzen G-50. THAT main slide is crazy short.

Longest tuning slides that I believe I have encountered have been on the 45-SLP (f-tuba). That thing has slide pull for days, both main slide and on each valve circuit.

Heat at 75° ??

Turn it down.

That's why God invented sweaters!!

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Warren Deck the guy who designed the 2134?

Warren rebuilt Fred Geib's big old Conn CC some years ago, and used it for a while in the NY Phil. Don Butterfield said that Warren had improved the tuba immensely. I had a chance to hold it briefly at an brass conference.

What struck me was how short the main tuning slide was. I mentioned that to Warren, but surmised that in his work he probably didn't need much slide.

Along with the M-W 2145, the Besson 983 "Sheridan" Eb also has a very short main tuning slide. Dunno what owners of those tubas do in extreme temperature changes
But my FrankenHolton Eb also has a very short main tuning slide, as I had to cut it along with the leadpipe to get it just above A=440, with mpc adapter For muted stuff, I use the mpc adapter and pull the main slide at least 1/2" or so. If I need even more length, I can use my (longer) 20-degree Yammy sousa bit.
In cooler rooms or in winter, I will just use the regular mpc adapter and maybe a shallower mpc. A bigger/deeper mpc without the adapter/bit also works in cooler temps.

A friend of mine holds the main slide on his 983 with electrical tape. It's out so far that it often falls out of the horn if it's not secured in some way.

bloke wrote: The mainline model that most astonishes me is the 2145 that offers (yes?) little more than an inch or so of practical-use tuning adjustment - with it's main slide just a little bit longer than "long enough to insert it into the instrument"...around 1/2 of 1% (am I calculating this correctly?) of the overall length of the open bugle.

I had one, you can see it in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53519&hilit=+2145
You can see in the picture that the main tuning slide was longer than standard, don't know the reason why.
The adjustment range was the same as the standard one, not much...
Anyhow, I had it shortenened to play in tune above 440Hz.
I must say however that, in the conditions I have played this instrument, once the tuning slide had the appropriate length, I never needed more adjustment range.

This is one subject I like to discuss. My OPINION is that ridiculously short main tuning slides are the result of laziness or error(and the laziness to properly correct it).

Let's talk the big Chicago York (and clones thereof). As a Euphonium is shorter than a trombone because the euphonium has a wider air column to achieve the same pitch, a 6/4 size tuba needs to actually be shorter than a 4/4 tuba of the same pitch. I can tell you that the last major part put on a tuba is the leadpipe. If the builder can get the horn almost up to pitch with a short leadpipe instead of making new branches, most will take that route. If they get to being as short a leadpipe as they dare but need just a little more off the horn, they will take it off the main tuning slide. There you have the big 6/4 CC with really short leadpipe and tuning slide.

BBb to CC and Eb to F conversions tend to have really short main tuning slides as that straight section of tubing is the easiest to remove. Hacks start by taking off the easiest first and then grudgingly work back towards the bell in brass removal. Again, shorter leadpipes are a favorite here for someone who is going to bend a new leadpipe as they have previously removed all they can out of the main tuning slide.

Beginners and the typical bad community band tubist tend to play sharp. By lipping up they create the resistance that gives them a strong "slot" to the pitch center. The nice long slide lets those who tend to play sharp have plenty of slide pull. Most really good players play flatter and relax down onto the pitch and can feel that subtle "slot". That is why the pros always look like they aren't trying very hard whereas the hacks look like they are smelling something bad. I factored this disparity between players into the Eastman EBC-632 when I designed it.

The Eastman EBC-632 has a nice long main tuning slide that plays A=440 with a 1/2" to 3/4" slide pull for the solid (above average that has had lessons and typical college tuba student or graduate). For those who play flatter and will need the slide cut to bring up to pitch or get more wiggle room, the main slide itself can be easily shortened another 1/2" or more by taking some of the straight leg off the main slide crook and about .3" off the ferrule. That is why that ferrule is longer than all the other ferrules. Solder it back together and you only changed the slide which can be buffed and lacquered or spot plated if need be.

All that said, at some point you have to just get the horn together and sell it. If you are still in the shop trying to design the perfect race car instead of being on the starting line when the flag is dropped, you certainly lost the race.

Art Hovey wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Warren Deck the guy who designed the 2134?

Warren rebuilt Fred Geib's big old Conn CC some years ago, and used it for a while in the NY Phil. Don Butterfield said that Warren had improved the tuba immensely. I had a chance to hold it briefly at an brass conference.

What struck me was how short the main tuning slide was. I mentioned that to Warren, but surmised that in his work he probably didn't need much slide.

A paraphrase from some bloke a few years back:

"When the ensemble tunes, I play a note, move the slide, play a note, and then move the slide back to where it was during the rehearsal."

Rick "who rarely has to move the tuning slide at all" Denney

Some of this is just dumb miscalculation at the factories. The first production Thein tubas had main tuning slides that actually extended past the bottom bow.

sort of sidebar:

My old JBL F tuba was always very sharp, even with the main slide almost all the way out.

I bought it as an undergraduate one December... tried it out at Custom Music's warehouse, where it was ~60 degrees. Played very well in tune then!

Cue my return to warmer climes, and I find I have to have the slide ju-u-ust barely hanging on to play at A=440.

I thought I was just a "naturally sharp" player (who was new to playing F tuba) and worked on using less tension, slower air, all that, which probably helped me in the long run... but I still tended sharp. I was reluctant to admit to myself that I picked a dud instrument, so I just dealt with it.

I later find out that B&S offered a longer American tuning slide for A=440. The ones CMI were selling had the European (A=~443) slide.
None of the guys at Custom mentioned it. I'm pretty sure you could buy the longer slide from them. When I found out about that later, I was a little miffed.

Outdoor brass quintet gigs during the summer were a real pain. I traded my JBL for a Willson F later (and it was probably a dumb move). Had I kept the JBL I would've bought the longer MTS.