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Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:07 am

Hi everyone
It's been awhile since I've posted on here. Probably about 5 years ago when I left for the Marines and I never really had time to post or play for that matter. But now that I'm out I'm ready to get back into it and try to get into college next year.
If any of you do remember me from back then you probably remember that I (very annoyingly) posted alot about an old 20j that my school had hidden away. Well the day finally came that they no longer needed it and I bought it from them. The only issue is that before I left the 1st valve hung up and tore. So the issue is now that I need a 1st valve to get it up and playing again. I know that these a hard to come by. I was going to see if anyone on the forum has a 1st valve for sale or knows of anyone who does. I am going to be reaching out to some local repair techs tomorrow and see if they know of anything.
That being said the horn is a great horn. It was made in 1965. A little rough and from what I remember playing it 5 years ago it plays like a typical 20j. I plan on getting the major dents worked out and checking the seal of the valves and lead pipe once I have it playing again. And after some hunting we found the original cases in great shape! So that's a bonus
Thanks for your time and it's good to be back on the forum.

P.S. how do 24j valves compair to 20js? I know that the 20k valves are different but is the 24j valve the same bore size and opening allignment? Just trying to see my options.
I will post pictures tomorrow
Last edited by andrew the tuba player on Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby edsel585960 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:37 am

The 1st, 2nd and 3rd valves on 24/25/j should be same as 20/21 j. I've owned both. Could have been interchangeable if needed.
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby Heliconer » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:30 pm

I have a 1st valve. Pm me.
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:35 pm

Pictures As promised:

Image

Image

Image

left to right: 20j, 52j, New wonder Giant Eb
Last edited by andrew the tuba player on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
Olds fiberglass Sousaphone Project
Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:08 am

Heliconer, PM sent.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby royjohn » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:36 pm

Congrats on scoring the 20J!!! (I have a 1934 model.) While you are waiting for the replacement valve, look for a bit if you don't have one. Once you get it playing, let us know how it does, esp. the notorious flat F. And what mpc you are using, etc.
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:09 pm

I have a few bits laying around. I used to have a 25j that I experimented with bit/no bit. If I remember right this horn played pretty well without it which is good for.me because I hated the position the bit .
put the horn in. But I'll play with it.
And I'll definitely report back on the mouthpiece. I have a few I want to try out.
Last edited by andrew the tuba player on Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
Olds fiberglass Sousaphone Project
Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:33 am

Oops. Asked a question that had been answered 5 or so years ago when I had this horn the first time
But I'll pass on the info in case anyone needs it.

My question was about the serial number. According to Conn and Conn loyalist the serial number H31247 started in 1966. Well my serial number is H1098x. Therefore I had assumed that mine was a '66 model as '66 was the only year with the 'H' Prefix. After re-reading my old posts I found this same question and it was said to me that it was made in late 1965 even though the serial charts never show this. Thought this might be useful for anyone trying to date their horn and getting stumped.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
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Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:28 pm

Is there any way to identify what version of the valve I need? I was talking to Danny Hutson of Southeastern Music Services and he said the only way to know of its the right one is the bring the horn in. But seeing as I live in Arkansas and he's located in Alabama that's not feasible.
So is there any way to use the serial numbers of the horn and the valves plus the measurements to know if the ports are the correct configuration?
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
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Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby royjohn » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:07 pm

This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but for the sake of completeness in options, Martin Wilk can probably make you a set of MAW valves...in addition to solving your problem, these are reputed to vastly improve the response of your horn. A set of 3 is listed on his site as costing $750. These often fit without any modification, but might require lapping...contact him to discuss if this is your option. Someone should chime in with how to distinguish the valves of the various dates on 20J's, however.
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:15 pm

Oh how I would dearly love a set of MAW valves. But $750 isn't quite in the budget. And I'd have to say if it was I'd probably have them made for my 52j since it's my work horse.
That being said this is an option to consider if I can't find one. It'll just take a while to save up 75,000 pennies. :wink:
Thanks for the idea though.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
Olds fiberglass Sousaphone Project
Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby royjohn » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:06 pm

Concerning the above posts [MAW valves for the 20J family of horns], I wonder if anyone has any experience with MAW valves for a 20J or related horn (21J, 22J, etc.) :?:
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:57 am

I'm not sure if he's made them. According to the website they are supposed to be drop in and go. But I'm not sure. I've only recently learned of their existance. But you could email him. I'm sure he'd let you in on it.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
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Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby royjohn » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:22 am

The valves on my 1934 20J appear to be pretty tight, and I don't have the $750 for a new set, either. If I go for something new for my 20J, it will probably be a repair that addresses whatever leaks are in the body of it, as these are reputed to be what keeps that F flat. Maybe address any alignment issues, too. THEN, if everything else is working well and the flat F is fixed, maybe I could think about a set of MAWs. They'd be more of an option if they were priced a little lower, but what do I know about how hard they are to produce? Also, when I hit 70 y/o next year, I'll actually be getting a social security check that is more than minimal. It's been just great eating all those dollar Mickey D meals and ramen noodles waiting for this...LOL :D :D :D
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:04 am

Yeah those are the things I am going to check as well. I also want to make sure all of my valve body is dent free. I've heard that can cause it as well. Mine definitely has its fair share of dents and dings but I'm really only worried about the lead pipe and valve body right now.
I really hope I can get a valve soon. I hate it just sitting there waiting. I want to get this project started. Not only will I get to play it but it's also a great learning experience. I for one had no idea that 20j valves had different versions. Guess that shows my level of knowledge :roll:
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
Olds fiberglass Sousaphone Project
Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
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andrew the tuba player
3 valves
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:07 pm

Bump. Still trying to find a valve.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
Olds fiberglass Sousaphone Project
Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
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andrew the tuba player
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby lost » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:02 pm

Please bump in the WTB section if you are looking for a valve.
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:35 pm

Oops. Sorry about that. I do have a post in the WTB.
Well I dropped the horn off at my repair tech today. He's going to take some measurements and pictures and try to come up with something. Here's to hoping with his skill and connections I'll find something soon.
And of course found a lot of side projects that are on the wish list if I find a valve. :D
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
Olds fiberglass Sousaphone Project
Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
User avatar
andrew the tuba player
3 valves
3 valves
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Some where in Arkansas

Re: Conn 20j

Postby royjohn » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:43 pm

A valve could be built from scratch or from a valve of approx. the right diameter by a talented tech. Or you could buy just one MAW valve for $250. Not the same effect as 3 MAW valves, but the horn would play...keep us posted...I luv my 20J... :D :D :D
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Re: Conn 20j

Postby andrew the tuba player » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:22 pm

We discussed rebuilding the existing valve. But the issue is what caused it to hang in the first place. After looking closely we noticed that the valve is slightly bowed one way which is what cause it to hang and tear at the stress point of the curve. He did say that if it comes down to it he could probably repair that one to at least get it up and playing but the biggest concern is making sure that it is straight and doesn't damage the casing.

All that aside though I think the best long term and economical choice is to hunt for another one that is in good shape and can be properly fitted.

The good thing about this project is that it's not must have horn so I can take as long as I need and insure it's done right. The only thing hindering that will be my patience.

I'll have to talk to him about using a slightly larger one. I'm very new to valve work so the thought had not occurred to me.
1969 Mirafone 186 BBb
1965 Conn 20J
Olds fiberglass Sousaphone Project
Epiphone Thunderbird Bass Guitar
Cremona 3/4 upright bass
User avatar
andrew the tuba player
3 valves
3 valves
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Some where in Arkansas

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