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Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:17 pm
by Three Valves
While details of the negotiations were quiet, it was clear that musicians and management had fundamental differences on the issue of musicians' salary.
The players' base salary was about $107,000 under the latest contract.
That offer would have cut the base salary 15 percent; shuttered the musicians' pension, which applies to only some players, for good; and reduced the number of musicians to a number determined by management, according to a statement from musicians.
Management said this morning that its offer “would have ensured that the members of the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra remained well compensated,” while also maintaining benefits such as 10 weeks of paid vacation time each year, and a minimum of 12 weeks of paid sick time, paid sabbaticals, pay for overtime and seniority, comprehensive health insurance, and “a generous retirement plan.”
http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/20 ... 1609300253" target="_blank
How did things get that far out of hand??
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:13 pm
by Three Valves
The statement went on to call figures cited by management “misleading” and said the changes called for were not driven by necessity but by a desire for a “new business model” that would be more sustainable.
The unsuccessful negotiations were the first under the PSO's new management team, led by
president and CEO Melia Tourangeau and
COO Christian Schornich. Ms. Tourangeau joined the orchestra in summer 2015, and Mr. Schornich started his position in January.
https://www.pittsburghsymphony.org/pso_ ... tourangeau" target="_blank" target="
Schörnich holds a Master of Arts in Public Administration from the University of Konstanz and a Master of Arts in Law and Diplomacy with a Certificate in Economic Analysis, Trade and Investment from Tufts University.
He lives in Mt. Lebanon with his wife, Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra violinist Eva Burmeister, and their two sons.
http://blogs.pittsburghsymphony.org/201 ... g-officer/" target="_blank
That should make for interesting pillow talk!!
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:55 pm
by Mark
Reduced to $90k+ and 10 weeks of paid vacation...
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:40 pm
by bisontuba
bloke wrote:The Pittsburgh musicians have voted to send the Fort Worth musicians $10,000.
Here's the thing about "moving up" to a "bigger" orchestra:
When you were paid (say...) $60K somewhere else, and you're now paid (something like...) $120K in a place like Pittsburgh,
- All of the houses are crappy, old, and dilapidated (yes, in the so-called "nice" parts of town), and still cost more than the house you lived in before.
- Taxes/fees/etc. are about double (or triple).
You might end up with a little bit more money, but you're also in a higher federal tax bracket...and about all you really end up with is "playing with a little bit better orchestra".
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:42 pm
by tubacharlton
bloke wrote:' better watch your wallet (along with your car/house/job) when anyone from any sort of "blue area" utters the word, "sustainable".
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-l ... n-findings" target="_blank" target="_blank
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:21 pm
by tubacharlton
Interesting take and I don't disagree although I think like many things it largely depends almost entirely on where you are lucky enough to be raised and into which social economic status you were born. I don't generally pine for any good old days where education was better; by and large kids have access to much more sophisticated curriculum much earlier in life than they did 20 years ago (with the earlier condition noted).
But causation and correlation are not the same thing
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:19 pm
by roweenie
I would think it's going to be rather difficult to garner sympathy from John Q. Public, regarding their particular situation, especially considering today's economic climate.
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:47 pm
by Michael Bush
roweenie wrote:I would think it's going to be rather difficult to garner sympathy from John Q. Public, regarding their particular situation, especially considering today's economic climate.
I think you are right. They have a chance, because John Q. Public isn't the bulk of their audience.
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:58 pm
by roweenie
Michael Bush wrote:roweenie wrote:I would think it's going to be rather difficult to garner sympathy from John Q. Public, regarding their particular situation, especially considering today's economic climate.
I think you are right. They have a chance, because John Q. Public isn't the bulk of their audience.
Yes. The problem with news articles like the one posted above, is that they are more likely to have a negative effect than a positive one, because you can't say, "John Q. Public, don't read this".
But, do they have a chance? I'm not so sanguine - John Q. Public out-numbers their (rapidly shrinking) audience by at least 10 to 1, and is growing rapidly. Where are the future potential "symphony-goers" coming from?
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:39 pm
by The Big Ben
No one likes to have their compensation cut but $107K plus benefits like healthcare, paid sabbaticals, 10 weeks paid vacation, 12 weeks paid sick time and some sort of retirement looks pretty attractive. Plus side work such as lessons and private gigs and it ads up. If 30 and 40 year olds are supporting these orchestras, it might be sustainable but, if they are counting on boomers supporting them forever, the first boomers (1946) turn 70 this year and have started dying off naturally.
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:24 am
by roweenie
bloke wrote:That having been said, I'm thinking the internet is going to make real estate agents obsolete sometime soon.
Yep, this has already happened to travel agents (remember the big telephone-book-sized-books they used to use to book a flight?)
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:54 am
by bort
Real estate agents -- I, for one, have no desire whatsoever to handle all of the legal stuff and paperwork on my own. I would much rather work with a realtor and have them do all of that work and just tell me where to sign. Yes, their job of finding listings to look at is probably long gone... but I think it's still an important and necessary profession.
Travel agents -- what the hell are those?
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:22 pm
by bort
Yep, and I didn't have a lawyer when I bought our house. But there's no way I would have wanted to buy w/o a real estate agent.
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:17 pm
by bisontuba
bort wrote:Yep, and I didn't have a lawyer when I bought our house. But there's no way I would have wanted to buy w/o a real estate agent.
+1. And a home inspection....some of these new folks who go without a home inspection are making a BIG mistake...
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:00 pm
by bisontuba
bloke wrote:bort wrote:Yep, and I didn't have a lawyer when I bought our house. But there's no way I would have wanted to buy w/o a real estate agent.
<OFF_TOPIC>
My favorite "nuevo" thing (last decade or two) is this "home inspection" gimmick, whereby the buyer sends out "experts" (often: drunks who can't keep their $h!t together well enough to actually ~do~ the particular trade that they "inspect") out to pick over a property...you know: for "buyer peace of mind" ...as if NOTHING will EVER go wrong with that house - since it's been "professionally inspected".
I've figured my way around that one, though; I actually HIRE the "inspector" to remedy the "issues" they found in their "field of expertise". Being a drunk (or a hack) they really don't know-how-or-want to actually do the work to remedy the problem, so they just go in, do a little bit of b.s. crap, charge me some money, and (as they are also the "inspector") stamp "pass" on their previously-found "issues". A nice bottle of whisky will often help keep the "repair" price down.
The only problem is when one of these bozos actually f's up a house. One time, I actually had to sue one of them (an easy win - represented myself). I came out ahead financially... ' got a free air conditioner for the house out of the deal.
</OFF_TOPIC>
I find it ironic that musicians - in particular, "high-art/classical" musicians - (seemingly: as an arm-to-arm herd or a tribe) support those "overseers of all of us" who seek to destroy society economically and encourage society to embrace the banale, and then they wonder why their high-art jobs are shrinking in scope and evaporating.
bloke "I personally do not know of any grocery store sackers (often: listeners of metal, country, and hip-hop) who endow symphony orchestras...and I'm saying no more on this particular subtopic, because I don't want any nasty notes in my p.m. inbox."
I guess home inspectors in Tenessee are QUITE different than in NY State...my guy had 35 years experience, saved me a LOT of money even though he was pricy, and even realtors use him to inspect their home/rental properties...money well worth spent...
Mark
PS. Maybe the guys in Tennessee spend too much time sampling their stills...
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:28 pm
by Alex C
All this real estate talk is way off topic!
If you have no experience in buying property, you need a realtor and a home inspector.
The home inspector will cost you about $300 and you can use the information to knock off a significant amount from the asking price, in most markets.
For the rest I wouldn't depend on a realtor because... they work for the seller! Who is paying the realty fees? The seller, the realtor owes a fiduciary interest to the seller and owes the buyer nothing. They know this because when you get a real estate license, this point is stressed. I might use one but I wouldn't depend on them.
So when a realtor says, "I'll get you the best price," don't believe them. They might get you a better price but, if ethical, this is already agreed on. Well, there is that ethical hang up. Tricky business.
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:28 pm
by Alex C
All this real estate talk is way off topic!
If you have no experience in buying property, you need a realtor and a home inspector.
The home inspector will cost you about $300 and you can use the information to knock off a significant amount from the asking price, in most markets.
For the rest I wouldn't depend on a realtor because... they work for the seller! Who is paying the realty fees? The seller, the realtor owes a fiduciary interest to the seller and owes the buyer nothing. They know this because when you get a real estate license, this point is stressed. I might use one but I wouldn't depend on them.
So when a realtor says, "I'll get you the best price," don't believe them. They might get you a better price but, if ethical, this is already agreed on. Well, there is that ethical hang up. Tricky business.
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:14 pm
by bisontuba
bloke wrote:Mark,
Most businesses are rackets, whether you're talking about the house (aka "home"...as in Real-TOR
) business, the orchestra (i.e. "Exec.Dir./Music.Dir.) business, the schooling/degree business or nearly any business. If you can't avoid being played, at least ~know~ that you're being played. The more someone tries to get you to believe that they "helped" you, (very VERY likely) the more they were playing you.
To those who are interested in picking up some cash playing tunes, (again) I'd strongly recommend picking up some other more-in-demand skillsets.
Anything you say Joe....
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:36 pm
by Matt Good
bloke wrote:They hired a hatchet man.
Yup
Re: I guess you've heard: The Pittsburgh Symphony is strikin
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:56 pm
by anonymous4
bloke wrote:
I find it ironic that musicians - in particular, "high-art/classical" musicians - (seemingly: as an arm-to-arm herd or a tribe) support those "overseers of all of us" who seek to destroy society economically and encourage society to embrace the banale, and then they wonder why their high-art jobs are shrinking in scope and evaporating.
bloke "I personally do not know of any grocery store sackers (often: listeners of metal, country, and hip-hop) who endow symphony orchestras...and I'm saying no more on this particular subtopic, because I don't want any nasty notes in my p.m. inbox."
I'm not sure what kind of orchestras you play in, but in the ones I've had the opportunity to visit, the brass sections were like a John Birch Society meeting. I just tried to lay low and not get those guys going. Maybe all the commies are up front?
Either way, it's very easy to understand why socialist policies would be appealing, especially when a situation like this comes about. I mean, having to rely on rich old people is annoying. Over in Europe, the governments toss money at arts and the orchestras... At least that's what somebody told me in music school. They would know too, since their cousin's best friend's brother played horn in Vienna. Doing that here would be a really swell idea, don't you think?
Even if you do, too bad, because what happens to these orchestras doesn't matter to any politician. The mayor will likely get reelected even if he loses the "symphony vote."
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