Replacement Besson 981 bell

[AHynds]

Hello, all!

I currently play on an older Besson 981 that has a Conn 4J bell instead of the original. Unfortunately, the previous owner got rid of the original bell, so I'm curious to know--how difficult would it be to get a replacement 19" Besson (or Besson-like) bell? And if possible, what kind of price tag am I looking at? As it turns out, I have a Conn 4J with a badly crushed bell, and I think I'd rather have the 19" bell on the Besson. So, if possible, I'd like to get a new bell for the Besson and do a complete swap between the two horns. Any info would be appreciated!

[kingconn]

I'd bet the Wessex or the John Packer bell would work. I'd have thought the Conn bell would be too small.

[jon112780]

Perhaps a pic of your 981 with the Conn bell???

[imperialbari]

Are you sure the 4J bell wasn’t cut to fil the Besson 981 ferrule?

According to repair people the German made 981 tubas are not made to the same measures as the original UK made 981 tubas. Goes for bore and for material thickness.

Were the Chinese clones made on basis of the UK made 981 (which came in at least 2 leadpipe variants over the years) or on basis of the German made 981?

Klaus

[Rumblebuffin]

Hello,
From speaking to both importers of Chinese EEb's, Besson executives & the people who sell & repair them; this is what I understand of the EEb tuba situation...

Most Jinbao EEb's are copies of a early 1980's round stamp, fletcher leadpipe, Besson Sovereign 981 made at the Edgware factory-so a Jinbao bell should fit one of the Besson instruments made up until production moved to Germany.

It's my understanding that York Preference EEbs (The York name was owned by Boosey & Hawkes & was resurrected by a holding company which restarted production after Besson collapsed in 2002.) were made using the original Boosey & Hawkes/Besson tooling & so a bell,from one of these should fit a UK built Besson 981 also.
(The York brand ceased production after the holding company collapsed in 2010 & spares are very hard to come by.)

New Besson Sovereign 981/982''s are made by B&S.
They are made using newer 'metric' (As opposed to imperial) tooling & have a different size valve block, slightly altered bell throat plus small but significant dimension differences all around the instrument.
I'm told that parts from this design are not interchangeable with the earlier-UK-981 models & their derivatives (982,983).

For what it's worth-a 19" B&H Imperial or Besson New Standard bell from the 1970's will also fit the Sovereign 981. These are made differently with triangular sections brazed into the bell flare (So, a three piece bell) whereas the Sovereign has the main flare braised on top (A two piece.). Good luck in finding one of those!

I know this is a lot of guff, but I hope it's useful.

[AHynds]

Excellent, this is very helpful! My horn is an older, British made instrument, so hopefully one of the Chinese bells would fit just fine. I'll need to take some more measurements to be certain, but again, this is a big help!

Hello,
From speaking to both importers of Chinese EEb's, Besson executives & the people who sell & repair them; this is what I understand of the EEb tuba situation...

Most Jinbao EEb's are copies of a early 1980's round stamp, fletcher leadpipe, Besson Sovereign 981 made at the Edgware factory-so a Jinbao bell should fit one of the Besson instruments made up until production moved to Germany.

It's my understanding that York Preference EEbs (The York name was owned by Boosey & Hawkes & was resurrected by a holding company which restarted production after Besson collapsed in 2002.) were made using the original Boosey & Hawkes/Besson tooling & so a bell,from one of these should fit a UK built Besson 981 also.
(The York brand ceased production after the holding company collapsed in 2010 & spares are very hard to come by.)

New Besson Sovereign 981/982''s are made by B&S.
They are made using newer 'metric' (As opposed to imperial) tooling & have a different size valve block, slightly altered bell throat plus small but significant dimension differences all around the instrument.
I'm told that parts from this design are not interchangeable with the earlier-UK-981 models & their derivatives (982,983).

For what it's worth-a 19" B&H Imperial or Besson New Standard bell from the 1970's will also fit the Sovereign 981. These are made differently with triangular sections brazed into the bell flare (So, a three piece bell) whereas the Sovereign has the main flare braised on top (A two piece.). Good luck in finding one of those!

I know this is a lot of guff, but I hope it's useful.

[tclements]

Scott Mandeville at Tim's Band Instruments in Sacramento, CA has one. Look him up.