Viennese Style Tubas

[binlove]

Hi, wondering if anyone has any information on Viennese style f tubas other than the story about the Dehmal that used to belong to Arnold Jacobs.

1. Other than the valve lengths, is there any difference between a 3+3 Viennese f tuba setup and a 4+2 setup? Any differences in bugle taper or anything like that?

2. Regarding the valve setup, any idea whether there is any inherent advantage to one vs the other? Here I am referring to the valve turnings rather than which fingers are used.

3. Tonal differences?

4. Who makes these things today? Only reference I can find is Jungwirth. They're beautiful instruments. I'm wondering if there are any other makers.

http://www.jungwirth-horn.at/wiener-tuba-in-f-eng.html

5. There are some interesting pictures of Christoph Gigler's tuba (from the Vienna Philharmonic). I can't even trace the plumbing on this thing, let alone figure out what is going on with the triggers. Anyone know who made it?

[thevillagetuba]

Some discussion on it here, with a figuring chart:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74387" target="_blank

Not sure they are really made anymore, as I believe it is an older valve system (before the somewhat standardized system we now have (but I could he wrong).

[arpthark]

Hi, wondering if anyone has any information on Viennese style f tubas other than the story about the Dehmal that used to belong to Arnold Jacobs.

1. Other than the valve lengths, is there any difference between a 3+3 Viennese f tuba setup and a 4+2 setup? Any differences in bugle taper or anything like that?

2. Regarding the valve setup, any idea whether there is any inherent advantage to one vs the other? Here I am referring to the valve turnings rather than which fingers are used.

3. Tonal differences?

4. Who makes these things today? Only reference I can find is Jungwirth. They're beautiful instruments. I'm wondering if there are any other makers.

http://www.jungwirth-horn.at/wiener-tuba-in-f-eng.html

5. There are some interesting pictures of Christoph Gigler's tuba (from the Vienna Philharmonic). I can't even trace the plumbing on this thing, let alone figure out what is going on with the triggers. Anyone know who made it?

1. I own the Alex Vienna F that Robert linked above. As far as I can tell, my Alex has the same bugle, bell and taper that other Alex Fs from that era have. The valve section is not graduated like on modern F tubas, so that might lend itself to some of the interchangeability (and tonal characteristics) that Alexander offers between model 156 and 157.

2. I don't think the direction the valves turn make much difference, but I don't really have a way to A-B test that without completely altering my instrument. I believe venting the valves would have a more immediate positive effect.

3. Sounds like an Alex. Very dark, present F tuba sound. Again, I think the non graduated bore makes a bigger difference than the 3+3 setup. I've had a couple people with lots of experience with Alex Fs (including a former Falcone winner) say this is the best Alex F they've played. Again, not sure how much that has to do with the valve layout.

4. I am sure Alexander or perhaps Rudi Meinl could make you one if you had the dough. I don't believe there are any made that are not special order.

5. No clue about that crazy thing. Would love to know more.

[bort]

I've always thought that the Vienna tubas were derived similar to Wagner tubas -- played by French Horn players originally, so the most important valves are on the left hand.

Earlier post about thoughts on Gigler's tuba:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47770" target="_blank

I think it's kind of excessive, but I'm also not in the Vienna Philharmonic.

[bort]

Oh, without a doubt!

I was saying that I think having 20 triggers on every single valve slide seems excessive. Vienna tubas in general are NOT excessive (especially not in Vienna!).

[cjk]

5. There are some interesting pictures of Christoph Gigler's tuba (from the Vienna Philharmonic). I can't even trace the plumbing on this thing, let alone figure out what is going on with the triggers. Anyone know who made it?

I did a google image search for "Christoph Gigler tuba". The tuba pictured above has 6 valves, 5 for the right hand and 1 for the left. It's not a Viennese style tuba. The other 3 levers for the left hand activate triggers. The right thumb activated valve appears to be a quint valve. I'm guessing that tuba is mostly made by Melton due to the quint valve. Melton made those available on Hilgers model F tubas.

[Yane]

The only thing with more confusing loops of tubing would be a "Giger tuba"

[WangZhiXian]

Out of curiosity, has anybody played the Jungwirth F tuba?

[WangZhiXian]

In other news, I have been corresponding with Mr. Jungwirth privately and he tells me that there is the possibility of a discount for bulk orders of the tuba. And by bulk, I mean more than one.

Note however that the horn is 14.7k Euro plus shipping and import duties on top.

My question still stands about people with live experience on the horn.