Transposition for G bugle

[Tubajug]

Greetings,

A local musician around where I teach asked me to transpose his Baritone TC part from a community band so that he could read it and play it on two valve G bugle/baritone that he's got.

I'm just seeking clarification so I put it in the correct octave for him: Do I write all the notes down a minor 3rd or up a major 6th? (Concert Bb to concert G, correct? I should have that part right at least...)

[aqualung]

Write the notes UP a minor 3rd. The bugle is pitched lower, so the transposed pitches have to be higher.

But this is not a good idea at all. Without a 3rd valve, the bugle cannot play a number of pitches that are commonly found in band literature. And the temperament will differ, as pitches are obtained on different partials. Also the bellfront/upright thing may be an issue.

[largobone]

I believe he is correct on the transposition, and he also raises a good point. While you're at it, point him out to a decent cheap bell front baritone or something on Ebay.

[Radar]

The other two posters are correct on the Transposition, the G bugles were down a Minor 3rd from a Standard Baritone horn or Euphonium, so you'll want to transpose the parts up a minor 3rd. Having only a valve and rotor (equivalent to the first and second valve, of a 3 valve instrument) is going to mean there will be many notes he won't be able to play. I agree that finding an inexpensive used 3 valve Baritone/euph. and learning the 3rd valve fingerings would be a better alternative. From what I remember from playing these horns in drumcorp many decades ago they are very bright sounding, and won't blend particularly well in a concert band setting.

[aqualung]

From what I remember from playing these horns in drum corps many decades ago they are very bright sounding, and won't blend particularly well in a concert band setting.

The G baritone bugles are made out of existing Bb baritone components, and will sound essentially the same.

But - - - - - - - -

Any brass instrument played bellfront is going to sound brighter than the same instrument played so that the bell interior is not facing the listener. The high frequency components of the sound are directional.

[imperialbari]

Let’s say this G baritone would work in a concert band. Isn’t there a semitone pull allowing for the equivalent of a 2+3 fingering on the 1P+1R models? That would allow for chromatics down to Bb, the 2nd partial of a Bb baritone.

It wouldn’t be a help to transpose the baritone parts for a few numbers. Either you would have to transpose the whole band book of baritone parts, or this guy would feel left alone.

Start out telling him how to transpose up a minor third. Written A major would become read C major. Written C major would become read Eb major.

I don’t remember doing an upwards transposition of a minor third. But playing parts in G, F, E natural, D, C, and Bb on an Eb instrument taught me that transposition is a concept, where the given factors are the key of the part and the pitch of your instrument. You enter the reverse interval between these factors in your reading process and take off playing.

Hadn’t done it before back then, but when I got an alto trombone, I at once played soprano or alto parts out of the 4-part hymnal set on 2 staves for the organist.

The cheating shortcut for doing this is simple: know all scales in all keys over the range of your instrument. Of course training these scales has side effects: your intonation, your evenness, and your general sight-reading will all improve. As will your ability to adapt into an ensemble, because you will better understand, what the other parts are doing.

What if the G baritone in question really is limited to 2 valves?

Maybe it isn’t the baritone part it should fill. Maybe the band is much better served by getting the 4th horn part played by an instrument that may be heard in the signature range of that part. Different transposition, same principle.

Am I following my own advice? No, all of my 4-part church related settings have playing scores for instruments in G, and not just in the flute choir scores. I made these G-score because of an old guy in Minnesota (or Idaho, anyway up north) managed a 9 piece brass ensemble, where one returner-to-brass-playing had seen an eBay 3 valve G baritone as his cheapest and only option to return to brass.

I have at least 6 instruments in G, two of them with only two valves. A bit regretable in case of the King G trumpet, which is a very good instrument. With 3 valves it would have been very applicable on low trumpet parts.

Klaus

[Tubajug]

Thanks for the input everyone. The guy has a regular baritone, he just wanted to try it for kicks on the G bugle.

So my last question is, do I change the key signature to match the minor third upward? Or leave the key from the Baritone TC part and just have a bunch of accidentals? I have the part written out in Finale and can make the switch, I just need to know if I have to or not. Thanks!