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On my prior rotary tubas, my MW 182 F and my MPh184CC, I either could not find a usable false tone (182) or did not need one (184, with the 2+3 5th valve.)

On the new Nstar, well golly gee there is a whopping G false tone above the pedal Eb. That makes the fifth valve....not necessary. Huh.

I thought usable false tones were more common on piston tubas than rotaries.

BTW I saw the mpc thread and figure I'm not pro enough to have an input that means much to anybody, but I'm finding I like my PT64 on it just fine.

MaryAnn wrote:I thought usable false tones were more common on piston tubas than rotaries.

It's usually easier on horns with a "beefier" profile (like sousaphones). Glad you are liking the new toy.

The MW Fafner has great false tones The Miraphone 191 doesn't

My Cerveny BBb 601 has better false tones than my Conn 25J.

Dan Tuba wrote:The Miraphone 191 doesn't

My TE-1915 has no false tone either, I guess this design feature was copied well.

My plastic Tiger (which I think is copied from the Miraphone 191) has very nice false pedal notes. It seems to be mostly conical, but exponential for the last few feet. Most of the tubas that I know of with good false pedal notes have conical bores, like a sousaphone.

My friend who has the NStar that made me want one, found that false tone on his but finds it a bit too squirrely for his use. But he's spent something like seven years using his 5th valve for that register and is quite settled into it. He played mine, BTW, in my living room (not his living room) and said as far as he could tell it was identical in response to his. Mine is prettier though (heh) being silver.

The false tones on my Hirsbrunner (which is certainly large) are as good as on the Holton (which is still a bit larger). But even my Miraphone 186 had completely usable false tones, as does my York Master.

But all of them have four valves and the false tones are the only way to easily play a low Eb in tune.

I never use false tones on my F tubas, partly because they are five or six-valve instruments, and partly because fingerings with those additional valves are as resonant and easy to play as false tones. Why would I play a low Bb using a false tone instead of 4-5? I can't think of a reason. But I can indeed get false tones out of my F tubas without too much effort.

Rick "not really seeing a rotary vs. piston trend" Denney

Here's an extreme example of an "exponential" (rather than "conical") horn:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BESSON-MADE-FOR ... SwnbZYIhUr

I suspect that "false pedal" notes would be pretty weak on this type of tuba.

Interesting that the opening bid price on ebay is $300 but the price tag in the first picture is $50....

I think $300 is of the "there is a fool born every minute" type of opening bids.

On my Bessophone, I don't really use privileged tones, since low Eb is 1(pull)+4, D is 234, Db is 1(pull)34, C is 1(pull a lot)234, I don't ever have a need for B-nat, leading to true pedal open fundamental Bb.

bloke wrote:a lot of b.s. in this thread. Again, the Conn 20K sousaphone beats all as a 3-valve fully chromatic instrument.

Yes, a Conn 3-valve 20K/22K/38K/40k, with the large bugle taper and bell throat, and especially if you convert the 1st valve circuit to a movable slide to keep everything in tune, has privileged tones that, when practiced, are indistinguishable in tone and transition compared to "valved" notes on other multi-valve conventional tubas, and in some cases preferable in tone - very little or no graininess at all, all the way down to true fundamental pedal BBb, and even a couple of notes lower, depending on the horn and a large enough auditorium to resonate the terminal fundamental node. The down side is that you pay for it in weight - 35 pounds plus, depending on which model and the year it was made. (OK - the fiberglass 22k may "only" be 20 pounds or so - deal with it!)