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Bloke's comment on the tension thread about ignoring the wigged out brought something to mind. A friend gets "easily distracted" by someone else's playing that is wrong notes, off the beat, etc. To the point where he stops playing, even in a concert, instead of just zeroing in on the conductor and exactly following the beat. I had another friend, way back, who used to go to fiddle jams with me. There was a coterie of horrid "accompanists" who could not be persuaded to not play along on everything, out of rhythm and out of tune. I said to her, and to my other friend, JUST IGNORE THEM.

But these two people, they seem to not be able to just ignore them. The one stops playing, and the other became enraged. Me, I'm pretty good at ignoring when I have to.

But....if one were teaching, which I am not, how would one try to teach the student how to ignore a particular irritant? My inclination would be to set up "irritants for practice" during lessons, but that might cause a student to walk.

I think it's a concentration or multi-tasking issue. The same thing happens if you try to talk to different players while they're playing. Some will stop, unable to play and listen at the same time. Others have no trouble hearing someone talk while they play. That can be an important skill on gigs, where the leader might call the next tune while you're playing another. Or similar to what you're describing, playing with the rhythm section's time while ignoring the saxes who are a half beat behind.

I don't really have any suggestions on how to work on that.

I'm convinced that some people pursue interaction with the public for the sole purpose of being disruptive.

We call them trolls now.

Before that drama queens.

And before that a PITA!!

From my experience, there are two critical (but truly obvious) details. First, be familiar with the music--not just your part. For most band, orchestra, and quintet music there are so many sources on the internet that the excuse of "I couldn't find a recording" usually means "I didn't bother to look". For small groups--jazz band, polka, folk music, etc... this can be more challenging.

For example: Most of us have the opportunity to play in ad-hoc German/polka bands around September. I've accumulated a couple of binders full of accordion parts, lead sheets, or whatever they might be called AND MP3s or CDs of recordings of the most-played tunes in the book. I usually start listening to them in late August or early September. If those tunes come up--I'm set. If they don't, I still have that style in my ear and can more competently "fake it"!

Second (and even more obvious) is to practice. For band, etc... that means your part. But, also practice with the recording (ie "Music Minus One")--it's like a group rehearsal without all the scheduling problems! If you expect to pull anything off the first time at the gig...well, you're a better musician than most!

It can be very difficult to deal with. As a trombonist, I'm used to always being able to match pitch in the case of intonation issues.

But what happens when you've got several people out of tune? Which one do you tune to? What if the conductor is inexperienced and is unable to give a steady beat? We also have had issues with players who play with their "face in the music" and apparently don't listen to the other players, and are in their own time zone.

I guess it's something you just get used to. I also play guitar, and for my first few years, I had trouble breathing while playing. As in, I would forget to breathe, breathe too often. I was too used to the trombone and singing connection, and it really took a lot of practice to get them separate. I have other friends who get driven crazy when they are in the car, and the blinker speed doesn't match the music, and other similar things.

I guess you just need to learn to filter some things out. Some unfortunately can't.

I have ADD and went through a phase where a serious mistake by someone else would distract me from playing. On stage! During a performance! It lasted about a year and I knew I had to get into my performance. I can't play or fix their part.

I think we should use a very subliminal part of our brain to be alert to pitch and ensemble. All the rest of our energy should go into making music.

Music is for everybody, (even the musicians haha!)
And it's quite complex. It affects everybody differently. Thusly so it becomes impossible to even want someone to do it like you want it.
What now?
If you're lucky you play with outstanding musicians who bring the best out of your playing.
Anything under that defines how happy you can be playing music.
Some musicians absolutely cannot play music on any level under that what they want to hear. That what moves them.
Respect.
Some musicians hear what's useful and use their abilities to lift the music to another level. It's not necessarily a question of "ignoring" as it is "giving a certain quality priority".
Also respect.
And there are many variations in between.
Respect.
All of these musicians could/can be well respected world renown awesome trendsetters or musicians who's musical facilities are way off the scale of public interest. (I think I'm trying to say lousy in a positive way).
Most are somewhere in between.
Cool. Where does that leave you?
Try to play as much with people you like to play with.
Try not to waste energy on musicians who aren't doing it in a way that works with you.
Hopefully you can earn the majority of your income with the former and not with the latter.
Good luck.

For me, I find it's an extremely fine line between trying to be hypersensitive (not in the emotional sense, of course) and listen and be part of an ensemble, and trying to be insensitive (same spirit as before) and ignore and shut out things that make an ensemble come apart. It's almost as though there are two distinctly different types of concentration being practiced simultaneously, and that ain't easy .

Playing along with others who do not seem to listen and adjust is probably my worst pet peeve. Ensemble playing takes adjusting on everyone's part, but there does need to be a 'modicum' of savvy or understanding on the each player's part. Some problems in playing are simply that certain individuals simply lack the necessary skill sets to fit in a group of a certain level. Certain of them can be brought up to snuff in a month of rehearsals, if the players are conscientous.

Much of my discontent, I admit, comes from a level of expectation that I have for the orchestra/band/whatever. I get there early, warm up, run a few scales with the tuner, and then look over the charts and get ready for a down beat. Others often will simply arrive as late as possible, take the horn out of the case, bang the valves free, and blatt away without a clue. Whadda ya do? I find if I stay in a group like that for too long, it tends to pull me down as I find that I need to compromise just about everything I play so that it fits. I have a sarcastic expression that I mumble on occasions. "are we going to keep playing this passage over and over 'til we CAN'T play it." Usually in those groups I will fein several excuses and return to the group just before the concert. Okay, maybe I'm not a nice guy, but I don't play to win a congeniality contest. Yes, I do love playing and have found some wonderful groups in which I am happy to be a part, and where I also have enormous respect for those around me. If you are a sensitive player in those respects, perhaps it is in your best interest to be highly selective as to where your play. It's hard to fake a good attitude when you know it is not a good fit.

bloke wrote:Typically, the first sounds that I make at a rehearsal or performance are the first notes on the page (or not, if no "pages") of a rehearsal or performance. I practice/warm-up/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it at home. ...

I do the same. I understand that some have no opportunity to warm-up elsewhere, but I sure wish they would. It's sometimes difficult to even say "Hello" to anyone during the cacophony that can occur during the few minutes prior to a rehearsal.

I don't know how one can ignore some people. I am the principal trombone in band (this is the top concert band in one of the best hs music programs in the state) and the second chair constantly ignores intonation and sometimes doesn't even play the right notes. This went on for several weeks and he clearly has no intention to improve but feels that it's his job to make everyone else sound worse so one day I just lost it. That day I skipped lunch and wrote in slide positions for every note in every song and the next day he pulled it out and wondered what the numbers were for. Then he got angry because somebody wrote in positions for him, "and they weren't even right!" Yes, the twice All-State trombonist who studies with one of the best trombonists in the state of Iowa doesn't know his slide positions but can play all major and minor scales from memory. Meanwhile, the only instrument he is decent at is guitar and all he does is improvise whatever "feels right" half of the time. Needless to say, I have issues with this guy but sometimes it hurts when I can't stop playing in the middle of a rehearsal or performance and tell him to listen already. Maybe I should get him a tuner for christmas

My one failure at ignoring someone was back when I was playing the Eb part in our local British style brass band. The conductor brought in someone to play snare drum who was constantly behind the beat, meaning anyone who listened to him also continually slowed down. (That same guy is a competent timpanist, so go figure.) For some reason the conductor considered ME to be the driving force of the band, and she told me she was counting on me, with my tuba part, to keep the band on the beat, instead of just getting rid of the problem. The band stopped being fun and I quit. It was too much to have to ignore that guy, listen to the band getting dragged backwards by him, stay dead on with the conductor fighting the entire band, and play my part well. I said, phooey. After a while that guy and the conductor got in a screaming match and she threw him out. Too late for me.

I can really get dialed into my music (this does not mean I play it perfectly all the time) and I take the conductors directions seriously. I really do not like other fellow tuba players giving me pointers, especially as we are rehearsing the piece. I take my direction from the conductor. After rehearsal then talk to me about a passage or piece we are playing, not during rehearsal unless you are the conductor.

MaryAnn wrote:My one failure at ignoring someone was back when I was playing the Eb part in our local British style brass band. The conductor brought in someone to play snare drum who was constantly behind the beat, meaning anyone who listened to him also continually slowed down. (That same guy is a competent timpanist, so go figure.) For some reason the conductor considered ME to be the driving force of the band, and she told me she was counting on me, with my tuba part, to keep the band on the beat, instead of just getting rid of the problem. The band stopped being fun and I quit. It was too much to have to ignore that guy, listen to the band getting dragged backwards by him, stay dead on with the conductor fighting the entire band, and play my part well. I said, phooey. After a while that guy and the conductor got in a screaming match and she threw him out. Too late for me.

Everyone knows firing the drummer is always the first course of action!!

(Should be)

bloke wrote: The (new - as of a couple of years ago) music director ROUTINELY chides them about this...

...not so much that they can't ~play~ the notes, but that they don't ~get~ the music, and he has to explain it to them - sometimes: phrase-by-phrase.

He lectures them that,

By the first rehearsal ALL of this music should be part of YOU, as if this is the tenth/twentieth/thirtieth time you've performed it.

To their credit, some of them have taken it to heart, and - to his credit - the ensemble now sounds like a "real" symphony orchestra.

25 years ago when I was trying to be serious about this stuff, I would go to Petelson's and get the excerpt book for that composer or better yet a pocket score and Tower Records and get a recording before the first rehearsal. That way, I was completely prepared before I sat down. Too many people I see now are truly "sight reading" a first rehearsal, even though they can go to YouTube for the recordings and IMSLP for the score - both completely free and sans travel.

I play in a large concert band and there is always tension as to tempo. I have figured out several potential reasons for this, but, yesterday I decided my reason number 1 was correct. There is 1 primary drummer and a couple others come and go, but the one guy stays and plays pretty much everything [possibly why everyone else eventually goes?]. I usually sit on the opposite side of the room, as far from the percussion as I can get, but yesterday, on a crowded stage, I was forced to sit directly next to him and he was all alone at the set. It was a 3-hour gig of mostly mindless background noise, so I entertained myself by trying to figure out why the tempo was all over the map, every time.Finally, I came to the conclusion that, like most bad drummers, he got himself [and the rest of the band] into trouble by simply trying to impress with his stickwork, hitting the kit as often per beat as he possibly could.He has good skills and has potential to play well, but instead of concentrating on a drummer's fundamental job--keeping solid time--he over-plays everything, with the result that the tempo goes to hell each time. I can tell you that this 3 hour gig was very frustrating because I saw and heard when it was about to happen but there was nothing I could do but hang on for a very bumpy ride. When he settled back down and just comped or he rested, things immediately improved. Until the next time! I just had to either fight it or drop out for a couple bars when it got really bad. And, there was not a bloke-sized paycheck to compensate for the agita!

The best solution: practice your rear end off and get in a better ensemble.

Second best: read up on RET, Rational Emotive Therapy, a system of cognitive psychology founded by Albert Ellis that suggests some strategies to avoid overreacting to things you can't control. It's an unusual self help program in that it can actually work. Of course it usually doesn't - but that's usually a choice.

But above all don't punish yourself by continuing to play with aggravating people/people you give the power to aggravate you.

Unless they pay really well.

timothy42b wrote:
Second best: read up on RET, Rational Emotive Therapy, a system of cognitive psychology founded by Albert Ellis that suggests some strategies to avoid overreacting to things you can't control. It's an unusual self help program in that it can actually work. Of course it usually doesn't - but that's usually a choice.

It's too late for Christmas but maybe I can get a copy for my wife for our anniversary...

What I do:

- Try to be the most solid player in the room, and try to play with the ensemble.

- Remember that it's just band.