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I've seen horns with terribly creased bells. I'm always paranoid about leaving larger tubas rest on their bells. Has anyone had problems with this? Just concerned about those big horns

Creased bells are caused by impact. Resting a tuba on its bell is perfectly ok.

I mean, if the people who make them have no problems resting it on the bell, I don't see an issue with doing it. I've seen plenty of people who've rested the horn upright in a gig bag and the bottom comes sliding out from underneath it, then the bell is smashed on the ground. Or even people who leave the horn propped up by the bell on a chair when they have a rehearsal break then someone unsuspectingly walks into it and it goes tumbling everywhere. Leaving it on the bell side down propped up against a wall where there's no foot traffic is the next safest thing to leaving it in the case.

As long as your horn (and bell) is kept clear in crowded stage situations, stumbling colleagues, legs of shifting music stands and chairs, etc. Those are the real dangers.

The bell is weakest part of the instrument; setting the horn on its bell is a recipe for a repair appointment. Some horns (the old Besson BBb compensators) are so unbalanced they fall over very easily when placed on their bells - resulting in the "Besson dent" on tubing opposite the bell. It's a drag lugging a stand around (and trying to find room on the bandstand or stage for it too) but it's worth it. The bell on my 1926 Martin upright shows its only evidence of major repairs - rolled out flange dents. As big as it is (and it's pretty big) the bell is still the weakest part of the instrument. Don Butterfield would bark at any student who casually flipped a horn on its bell, and he used to carry a stand around with into the recording studios.
Plus upending the tuba usually means drips from the mouthpiece onto the bell, etc.
Even with the Chinese imports tubas are very expensive, and great instruments that play exceptionally well will always be rare. Trumpet players and trombonists use stands and we should too.
Mark Heter

Welcome to the forum.
The only bell I have ever creased was actually in a case. I roughly set it off the back of the equipment truck and when I opened it up, yep wrinkled but playable. At the end of the tour I had it repaired.

Carefully setting it on its bell is fine but like the others said, ill placed footsteps are its worst enemy. During rehearsal breaks my horn always looks like a nervous cat in a room full of rocking chairs

The only damage any of my tubas have ever sustained while standing on the bell was at the hands of unthinking folks who try to wade through the 'tuba forrest' from the trumpet row. Grrrr!

I once saw a trumpet player jack his chair back until one of his chair legs was on a tuba bell flare. NOT my horn but... double grrrrrr!

Add to everything else: the classic flattening of the bottom bow ferrule opposite the bell stack on Besson 17-inch BBb tubas, since the bell flare on these tubas is really is not large enough to keep the center of gravity over the bell. So...one slight knock and over it goes.

I am completely against setting a tuba on its bell. When I perform on tuba, I keep my case backstage where I can get to it, and carry it offstage and put it in the case, albeit with the zipper open, to avoid bell and other damage from it falling over.

Frankly, (here I get on the horse and ride) I don't even know why this thread is posted, except possibly to warn against this practice, because standing a tuba on its bell is probably the worst thing you can do to it.

I do not like to put it on the bell, but when in a concert and I am switching back and forth to another instrument like the cimbasso, euph or bass trombone, there is usually not enough time to fuss with laying it down or for getting it to slip into a nice snug stand. (one more thing to schlepp) In that case, which happens to be a more controlled environment, I find it acceptable and quite frankly very practical. (I do keep the cimbasso in a stand - there is really no safe way to lay that contraption down.)
I do have an issue with one of my tubas where the bell is not quite flat around the rim, thus it is marginally unstable when on the bell. I do need to very carefully up end it and sit it down gently. It will go to the shop shortly for a leveling job which in the long haul will prevent future problems. Putting it down quickly can be, and in the case of the tuba I just mentioned, the reason for the rim getting compromised. Sometimes situations are frantic, and we respond with spring loaded movements that are not necessarily kind to a tuba.
The main reason I don't like it upended though, is because of the water that condenses inside. Even when I drain it before putting it down, when I pick it up several minutes later, the warm air inside has condensed and I need to redrain all the branches yet again, which on a front action piston tuba usually requires the ol' "loop de loop." With that in mind, keeping it in upright, or at least leaning on a chair, keeps much of the ambient water from migrating to those awkward regions. In the symphony orchestra I have plenty of room, and also have a rubber mat for when we are on a stage with a rough floor. In crowded concert bands I will put it back in the case during the break. Players in amateur bands tend to be somewhat and often less careful than say those in symphony orchestras. Perhaps the string players with their relatively fragile wooden instruments control the overall deportment of the players in general. (Sorry for the profiling.)
But, I feel it depends on the situation. If an accident can happen, it likely will.
Also in handling the tuba, if the band director begins a piece without sufficient time to raise up the tuba, I get it in place as soon as I can do it safely, and if I miss the first passage, well that's the way it is.
There's my two cents.

To the OP's question: Yes - I've had issues with this and have seen this issue on other early Russian and Chinese made tubas.
It's not a one-time issue, but over time after repeated placement on the bell, we noticed that the rim was slightly flattened.
I think St Petersburg has corrected the issue with their current tuba models, but if I remember correctly it's a common issue with the model 200 and/or 201 BBb tuba. They're on model 202+ now which has a stronger bell rim and doesn't have this issue.

Jonathan (Wessex tubas) may be able to shed more light on what the Chinese are doing differently now, but I've seen this on a couple of the chinese import tubas that I've been around. My tuba is also a chinese import. To avoid additional problems, I don't set my tuba down on the bell. I've found that placing the bell rim in the seat of my chair (bottom bow on the floor) is more stable anyway.

At an outdoor gig a friend had his tuba sitting on the bell on the floor next to him. A lady approached with a camera, noted his extreme discomfort, and said "I won't hurt your tuba." He said "YOU ARE STANDING ON THE BELL."

Unfortunately the woman was known to us. For years she hung out as her husband descending into Alzheimer's tried to keep playing. But she was very annoying with the camera all that time.

The best way to prevent damage to a tuba is to leave it in the original packaging it came in from the manufacturer and never open up the case. Forget that! I play my tubas and they ALL have a few dings and scratches. If you lay the tuba down flat at break time, you increase the target area for idiots to step onto. If you put the tuba on the bell and lean it up against a chair, you make it more visible but now the horn can be "knocked over".

"Gentleness is a velvet covered brick." I don't know where I first heard of or read that saying, but it is true. Just do what needs to be done but protect yourself and others from the sharp little edges in life. Come break time in a community band setting, I slide my music stand forward and set my tuba on the bell between the chair and the stand with top branch resting against my chair. I've increase the visibility of my tuba and increased it stability. That is all I can do without being like that person who buys a new sofa and wanting it to stay nice looking leaves the nasty plastic covering on it.

I think I posted this here before, but I can't find it. When I was in the Long Island Symphony, the bs. tbn. player was the personnel mngr. and during the required breaks he would announce for anyone who had issues, complaints or wuddeva, to see him in his office. Well, his office was his chair and members would gather around his chair, with some standing on the edge of my bell because I left my tuba at my chair. The smart thing for me to do would have been to move my tuba, but no. I was young and rough around the edges. So, I just started tossing water from my horn all around my chair. By break time, a moat was always clearly visible and I would stand off stage with other brass players (because we hung together and liked this sort of thing) and watch the mostly string players approach the bs. tbn. office, suddenly see my moat, back off and form a line on the other side of his office. We found it to be hilarious and nobody came near my tuba again as long as the orchestra existed. Of course, you don't want to do this in your house, but hopefully, nobody would step on your tuba in your house. I've always just stood it on its bell leaning against a chair, wall, or other furniture. I've never had one fall over. I dropped a few and fell over one though.

Matt Walters wrote:Forget that!

Well that's easy for you to say! Every time your horns get dinged up, you get to take them to Matt Walters to get them repaired!

I cannot leave my Cerveny Piggy on its bell. It will fall over. It is from the 1970s, so that might make a difference. I can put it on its bell if it is braced against a wall or something and it is OK. Although, I don't really like to do that either. I normally lay it down flat on top of the gig bag. Since it is short, this isn't really too much of a problem.

My Kaiser is fine on its bell, but I try to brace it against a wall or something whenever possible.

mike

58mark wrote:

bloke wrote:"Meinl-Weston"..."at home"..."no little kids around" - probably fine

"Cerveny"..."anywhere other than at home" - maybe not such a great idea

The last 28 of my 35 years are with cerveny tubas, good idea or not, it's worked for me

I never place my horn on the bell. I've seen too many horns fall victim to getting knocked over. I do place it flat on the floor, but I am careful to place out of the way of normal traffic. I like the suggestion of placing it on/in the gig bag. I also think the "on the bell" position caused the condensation to redistribute it's self throughout the tuba making it harder to remove during playing.

I also have to say that my horn has only been on its bell once in its life and wasn't put there by me. When at rehearsal it usually goes back in the open case during break as I put it close enough to not be a bother. If I can't do that or its during intermission I just wait for everyone up front to go by (as I'm usually emptying condensation anyways) and then gently set it on its back between my stand and chair. It's never been kicked or stepped on. And my bright silver bell is still perfect 6 years later. No crease, bend or scratching.

I first started this when I had a satin silver 25j that the bell was deformed and scratched deeply around the rim from being sat on the bell. I don't have enough money to pour into fixing the bell or if my horn got knocked over fixing all the problems that come from that. I'd rather just take a few extra minutes and steps to ensure it stays the way it is.

I almost never put a horn on its' bell. If it's a top-action horn all the water will run into the pistons and with a side-action horn the upper slides can fall out. Saw this happen with a certain famous tuba from Chicago. Nothing like hearing that "clang" of a dropping slide from one of those two horns! I also had a student who came to me with a bashed in bugle. Yep, the whole horn (Miraphone 186) fell over.

FWIW - I use a piece of 3/8 clear tubing around the rim of the bell on my horns. It protects them from scratches on the edge and I can set it down on rough surfaces (concrete...) without a problem.