Modern French C Tubas

[ATschetter]

I was doing some research on the French C tuba for a research paper fairly recently and began wondering if any modern companies produce them? I think that there could be a market for them if they were available (If not in the professional market then maybe in the amateur one) for the wide range they are supposed to have. Not to mention that people could play things like Bydlo and the Hungarian March for the instrument that they were intended for, and I could imagine that many people might want a C tenor tuba for other uses as well.

[oedipoes]

I think this company does:

http://www.pgm-couesnon.fr

[marccromme]

Amati makes an euphonium in C ..
http://www.amati.co.at/euphonium/232_av-c.php" target="_blank

Miraphone makes/did make the model C 56 A, but I can't find it on the net now ..

[UDELBR]

Amati makes an euphonium in C ..

A euphonium has a different bore taper than a French tuba (see picture). And Couesnon only makes a 4 valve saxhorn in C, so not a true French tuba. I'm pretty sure no-one's making these any more.

[basshorn]

The new Willson Saxhorn, although pitched in Bb could serve as a modern French Tuba. The compensating valve system providing the required range. Well there wouldn't be the advantages of the french valve sytem.....

[UDELBR]

The new Willson Saxhorn, although pitched in Bb could serve as a modern French Tuba.

The addition of an extra foot of tubing is a significant difference.

[basshorn]

Therefore: never use Your first valve again!

The used ones i saw advertised where normaly described as C/Bb instruments.....

[Mr.T439]

Send me a PM and I'll send you my dissertation that has information about the French Tuba, its origins and usage in composition and at the Paris Conservatoire.

[UDELBR]

Therefore: never use Your first valve again!

Er, no. Valve slides are straight pipe, whereas the instrument itself is largely conical.

[basshorn]

I might be wrong but i understand that the French tuba, being part of the Saxhorn family, is differing from modern tubas in having more cylindrical tubing.....

[ATschetter]

I might be wrong but i understand that the French tuba, being part of the Saxhorn family, is differing from modern tubas in having more cylindrical tubing.....

Through my own research, I've come to understand that modern tubas and euphoniums in particular take many design cues from Saxhorns in terms of their bore, so I wouldn't underplay the relationship between French tubas and other members of the tuba family.

[joshealejo]

Send me a PM and I'll send you my dissertation that has information about the French Tuba, its origins and usage in composition and at the Paris Conservatoire.

I am interested to get this info too!! do you think you can send It to me as well? Thank you!!!

[basshorn]

The new Willson Saxhorn, although pitched in Bb could serve as a modern French Tuba.

The addition of an extra foot of tubing is a significant difference.

I don't agree! A more significant designfeature is the profile of the conical part. Therefore a somehow tuba shaped C instrument with depressed valves of any length wont sound significantly different from an alike shaped Bb instrument. At the end of the day the most significant difference will be the player with his concept of sound and the influencing heritage of musical style. Of course there are some conical bore profiles and matching mouthpieces that suport certain sound ideals better than others.

Rick Denney is very precise about tenor tubas: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1452" target="_blank" target="_blank"

[basshorn]

I might be wrong but i understand that the French tuba, being part of the Saxhorn family, is differing from modern tubas in having more cylindrical tubing.....

Through my own research, I've come to understand that modern tubas and euphoniums in particular take many design cues from Saxhorns in terms of their bore, so I wouldn't underplay the relationship between French tubas and other members of the tuba family.

I better would have written: 'being part of the modern saxhorn family'
Modern saxhorns would mean instruments offerd new by Courtois, Couesnon, Willson,.....

http://www.a-courtois.com/en/instruments/saxhorns/" target="_blank
http://instruments-musique.pgm-couesnon ... -11-1.html" target="_blank
http://www.willson.ch/en/instrument/willsax" target="_blank

[UDELBR]

I don't agree! A more significant designfeature is the profile of the conical part. Therefore a somehow tuba shaped C instrument with depressed valves of any length wont sound significantly different from an alike shaped Bb instrument.

Well of course it will, as the C instrument will have one less foot of conical tubing. Unless you're saying that conical and cylindrical instruments sound the same.

[basshorn]

70% of the sound is the player. The rest is the instrument with the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece will take another majority of sound production. For whats left over we can talk about the less than 8 foot conical tubing on tubaish C instruments vs. less than 9 foot conical tubing on tubaish Bb instruments……. a really remarkable differing detail in the whole system! Let’s be realistic, one foot of cylindrical tubing just causes remarkable differences concerning the resulting sound in a players head!

Just to make sure: We are not talking about a more direct response on shorter tubing and we don’t talk either about comparing tubaish instruments with their close relative horn instruments or even the really cylindrical trumpet/trombone instruments.

Again, of course there are some conical bore profiles and matching mouthpieces that support certain sound ideals better than others.

[Mr.T439]

Below is a google link to my dissertation/supporting document about the concours of the Paris Conservatoire. The specific information is from page 6-11 on the French Tuba. In addition to the French Tuba information there is an annotated bibliography of the pieces used at the Conservatoire from 1987-2007 and a list of all the composition used from 1957-2007 for tuba.

Enjoy.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing" target="_blank

[ATschetter]

All that being said, have any of the Chinese companies tried to produce a bass saxhorn or considered it?

[PaulMaybery]

All that being said, and in search of the French C Tuba, I have it on good information that the premiere of "Pictures" was done by French tubaist, Fernand LeLong, who according to my source played the work on the Bb French tuba. My source was a student of LeLong.

[Wyvern]

All that being said, have any of the Chinese companies tried to produce a bass saxhorn or considered it?

Chinese companies will not consider making any new tuba unless there is either;

1) Demand from the domestic market (Chinese military, schools or conservatoire professors)
2) A request from western dealer they respect
3) Specific order to produce from western company which they supply

I could no doubt resurrect the French C tuba if I was convinced there is sufficient demand to make economic to produce, but it is not one of Wessex Tubas current projects. Having tried French C tubas in the past, if we ever did, I would want to adjust slide lengths to make fingering more logical for modern tuba players to be similar to 6-valve F tuba. On French C tubas I have tried it is completely different (even between different makes) making them a steep learning curve to be playable in concert.