Philly strike - not the way to generate goodwill

[barry grrr-ero]

Really? . . This may be a good way to get what you want, but it's not a great way to keep 'goodwill' between the orchestra, and those patrons who contribute and have bucks in their pockets. Jump down my throat all you want; ban me; write your congressman; go tell the president elect; whatever, but I think this is disgraceful. As the lady said to orchestra members as she walked back through the lobby, "shame on you".

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/arts/ ... .html?_r=0" target="_blank

This is exactly why I don't pay big bucks ("big bucks" for me) to go see my local highly-paid orchestra. I'll take the lessor quality of community orchestras; college orchestras and concert bands any day.

[bort]

I'm always curious if everyone in the orchestra feels this way, or just a majority or something.

That is, if I were an orchestra tuba player, yeah, I'd want a good deal for benefits, salary, etc. But striking as a tuba player and knowing there are zero jobs apart from this one is a whole lot different than playing violin or trumpet or something else where there are far more opportunities.

[barry grrr-ero]

. . . if you like teaching. Trying to make a living playing chamber music is getting harder and harder as well. Ever tried the 'freeway philharmonic' circuit? Big Bands are all but extinct now too.

Barry "no disrespect meant - just wanting some reality checks [no pun intended]" Guerrero

[Ken Crawford]

$137,800 BASE pay? Maybe musicians that complain about making well into the six figures deserve to not have a job. There are many that would gladly take their positions for less. You play the violin/trumpet/percussion etc you aren't saving lives.

[barry grrr-ero]

That may be a little strong, but I think your point is exactly what's becoming more and more obvious. Nobody wishes these musicians bad fortune (well, I don't). But pulling the plug AT the opening gala is not good for your p.r. in the long run. It smacks of acting like a spoiled child.

[Ken Crawford]

That may be a little strong, but I think your point is exactly what's becoming more and more obvious. Nobody wishes these musicians bad fortune (well, I don't). But pulling the plug AT the opening gala is not good for your p.r. in the long run. It smacks of acting like a spoiled child.

A little strong coming from a musician. The patrons/audience that were turned away from the concert that learn what these spoiled brats make ought to be outraged. If you go into most major cities and ask the average person (most of the population) that doesn't care about "the symphony" how much they believe those musicians make they'll give you a puzzled look and say "oh I thought they were all volunteers." And then tell the guy breaking his back at a job that actually produces a tangible good or service that that second violin player makes twice as much as he does and expect him to put his butt in the seat at a concert...right.

And as long as musicians continue claiming to be worth $71.77 an hour, plus benefits, well guess what...We'll keep hearing more and more synthesized music everywhere we go. Good job folks.

[bort]

This is why its better when people don't know how much money each other makes.

[barry grrr-ero]

I'm not opposed to any organized labor union going on strike. After also, it is a dog eat dog world, and everybody has to look out for number one - and whatever timeless cliches apply here. But I don't think it's a great idea to act like spoiled brats when your BEST PAYING CUSTOMERS are ALREADY there, expecting to see and hear 'the show'. Those same patrons may not be so sympathetic the next time around, as in the way they vote with their own dollars.

[windshieldbug]

I'm not opposed to any organized labor union going on strike. After also, it is a dog eat dog world, and everybody has to look out for number one - and whatever timeless cliches apply here. But I don't think it's a great idea to act like spoiled brats when your BEST PAYING CUSTOMERS are ALREADY there, expecting to see and hear 'the show'. Those same patrons may not be so sympathetic the next time around, as in the way they vote with their own dollars.

What bloke said.
And have MANAGEMENT YEAR AFTER YEAR shove things down your throats because THEY'RE COUNTING ON views like "don't piss off your patrons" to keep things going.

We played in Delaware for OVER A YEAR once without a contract because the board didn't want to put in the effort that it took to keep a symphony going. They wouldn't bargain in good faith until we took a strike vote AFTER THAT YEAR.

And if you're going to threaten a strike, you better be prepared to have to do it, no matter who you piss off. NOBODY wins a strike, everybody understands that, but sometimes it comes down to it.

[barry grrr-ero]

But we're talking Philly. The orchestra just got back on its feet (financially); just generated a lot of 'buzz' and good feelings with a new, energetic conductor, and the players are still making a very good living. We're not talking about working conditions in a coal mine, or even the Delaware Symphony, are we? You would think that some of that would soak into the minds of the players themselves, regardless of what management's strategy may or may not be. It's a question of context and long range thinking - for everyone's benefit.

https://philorch.org/sites/default/file ... stra_0.pdf" target="_blank

[tofu]

I'm not opposed to any organized labor union going on strike. After also, it is a dog eat dog world, and everybody has to look out for number one - and whatever timeless cliches apply here. But I don't think it's a great idea to act like spoiled brats when your BEST PAYING CUSTOMERS are ALREADY there, expecting to see and hear 'the show'. Those same patrons may not be so sympathetic the next time around, as in the way they vote with their own dollars.

Oh you are so right. There are patrons you can probably get away with pissing off and there are patrons that you are absolutely playing a game of Russian Roulette with when you piss them off and those are your deep pocketed & socially & politically connected patrons. Pulling a stunt like this on the big gala opening night is one of those things these folks won't forget. Supporting the big city symphony is no longer the big social & business prestige status building thing it was back in the day. So there is less and less of a real or perceived benefit that accrues to symphonic benefactors. More and more of those that remain are either ancient and whose numbers are declining rapidily as they transition to the great encore of life on earth or they are the ones who truly love the music. The latter are becoming more and more knowledgable about the disdain that many of the musicians/employees their dollars support have of them for both their wealth and their perceived lack of musical knowledge. You can see the disdain on here.

What bloke said.
And have MANAGEMENT YEAR AFTER YEAR shove things down your throats because THEY'RE COUNTING ON views like "don't piss off your patrons" to keep things going.

We played in Delaware for OVER A YEAR once without a contract because the board didn't want to put in the effort that it took to keep a symphony going. They wouldn't bargain in good faith until we took a strike vote AFTER THAT YEAR.

And if you're going to threaten a strike, you better be prepared to have to do it, no matter who you piss off. NOBODY wins a strike, everybody understands that, but sometimes it comes down to it.

Well Symphony Orchestras can't sustain themselves on their non-existent profits. You may not like the fund raiser and what they get paid, but if they bring in more than they get paid then it is a net gain. I'm not defending orchestra managements as I'm sure that many are truly inept and not worthy of their renumeration, but the basic core problem remains & that is virtually nobody wants to pay to sit their butt in the hall for a classical concert. So these pay levels are unsustainable in relation to what the market would truly pay to see the orchestra play. If patrons are truly as musically ignorant as many in the symphonic world think they are, then they probably wouldn't notice or mind if the the orchestra personnel was made up of the ranks of the thousands of highly qualified unemployed musians willing to work for less.

[anonymous4]

I've always believed that a music performance "job" (no matter how much "tradition" and "history" surrounds it) should ~always~ be viewed as a "gig" - something that could end tomorrow, and that there should be other marketable and regularly-exercised skills that are used to generate plenty of income for to (well: "sustainably") meet one's needs.

I've always felt, and have encouraged others to feel. that all jobs of any kind are "gigs."

Being "You-incorporated" is the path to more "freedom" and "liberty."

Freedom and liberty are really great to talk about if you already have things figured out. Most people don't have things figured out and probably never will. For a lot of people, they just want that nice job at the factory back that paid good money and benefits. Is that too much to ask for? Not everyone is cut out for 60 years of never-ending "hustle" just to survive.

[tbonesullivan]

I'm always on the fence about discussing compensation. On the one hand, many people out there really are vastly underpaid for what they do, and the amount of work they put in. On the other hand, it is a market-based economy, so you take what you can get. Orchestras like this one are pretty much the top of the scale, and there are quite a few paid orchestras where the compensation is far less. There have also been more than a few orchestras folding because the costs of running the orchestra outweighed the amount of money that they could raise, especially when negotiations with the performers became intractable.