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Clarion has just informed me that for an instrument valued at $5k or more, there must be a bill of sale or a company letterhead appraisal. No matter I can prove what I paid for it....apparently only dealers are legitimate sellers. Hence I am looking for new insurance suggestions. What I liked about Clarion was that it covered my instruments no matter where they were or what I was doing with them. With homeowner's it is not so comprehensive. Since I've never needed to collect, I don't know if Clarion would have been worth what I've been paying them for the last ten years or so.
What do ya'll have that you can recommend for instruments worth more than $5k?

For my clarion policy,they just want to know the replacement value. I got a price quote from a dealer on the companys letterhead, and Clarion is cool with that.

bort wrote:For my clarion policy,they just want to know the replacement value. I got a price quote from a dealer on the companys letterhead, and Clarion is cool with that.

Me too. And I just changed what instrument was covered no questions asked. I wonder what the problem is?

Actually, at first, they told me what MaryAnn had said. I've also asked some of our favorite repair-people around here for appraisals via the web, and people have been very accommodating.

Again though, I think the key thing is to have the full replacement value listed. It's not like car insurance where in the event of an accident you would be "made whole" (i.e., if you have a 10 year old car, they're not giving you a new car... they're giving you the value of a 10 year old car). It's my understanding that the Clarion insurance covers the full replacement value.

I think I'm paying something like $160 per year for insurance. At that rate, for the current cost of my tuba brand-new, I'll have to carry the insurance for around 130 years. So yeah, for me, it's worth it. Sure hope I never need to use it, but ain't that the case with all insurance?

MaryAnn wrote:Clarion has just informed me that for an instrument valued at $5k or more, there must be a bill of sale or a company letterhead appraisal. No matter I can prove what I paid for it....apparently only dealers are legitimate sellers. Hence I am looking for new insurance suggestions. What I liked about Clarion was that it covered my instruments no matter where they were or what I was doing with them. With homeowner's it is not so comprehensive. Since I've never needed to collect, I don't know if Clarion would have been worth what I've been paying them for the last ten years or so.
What do ya'll have that you can recommend for instruments worth more than $5k?

You just had the horn in the repair shop - no? Ask them to give you an appraised value on their letterhead. Some will ask for a small charge. In my case my repair guy does this gratis on all my horns unasked by me. But then again I'm a good customer.

I just had it cleaned, but it was by the guy who works for the school system. So he does not have a repair shop letterhead.

"Good Afternoon. We are unable to accept a private party bill of sale. As per our Underwriting Guidelines, any item valued at $5,000.00 or higher requires either a dealer bill of sale, or a copy of a recent (within three years) appraisal on company letterhead. Changes are effective the date the request and required documentation are received."

MaryAnn wrote:I just had it cleaned, but it was by the guy who works for the school system. So he does not have a repair shop letterhead.

"Good Afternoon. We are unable to accept a private party bill of sale. As per our Underwriting Guidelines, any item valued at $5,000.00 or higher requires either a dealer bill of sale, or a copy of a recent (within three years) appraisal on company letterhead. Changes are effective the date the request and required documentation are received."

Look at this: https://www.musicproinsurance.com/pages ... dEquipment" target="_blank
I don't know much about it, but it looks interesting.
good luck!

I have always provided my insurance company prices from a reputable seller (WW&BW, Dillon's, Baltimore Brass, etc.) for replacement value. These are usually taken from published price lists that are online and easily accessible. My insurance ends up costing a tad more but I'm okay with that. Should I ever have to use it, I'll want the cash necessary to completely replace my horn. So the value I submit may be higher than the purchase price I paid from a private seller. Also, every 2-3 years I research what the current value is on all my horns and update as needed. Currency fluctuation and inflation can make a big difference to replacement cost. Lastly, be sure to insure all the ancillary equipment (cases, gig bags, mouthpieces, tuba stand, etc.) since you might need any of that replaced as well. The rates are so low, it really doesn't make sense not to cover everything that could conceivably be lost.

Clarion is a good company, though I don't have my insurance through them. You instincts are correct, in my opinion, regarding the coverage applying anywhere your horns may be. It seems far more likely to me that a horn would be stolen while outside of the house than from inside. Good luck!

They decided to "make an exception" in my case, using the sale price of my 283S from a web site. I wanted replacement value, because what I have very rarely shows up used. I pointed out to them that many people buy fine instruments used from individuals and do not have a bill of sale from a dealer. And that they allowed me to use web site values for replacing my horn. They said they don't trust web site prices. I don't know how much of a discount a person can get on a new NStar from a dealer. I've never bought a brand new instrument.

you might be able to get a more comprehensive rider from your homeowners company. I believe it is called am Inland Marine rider?

My homeowners policy would not cover the horn if I was using it professionally. They would cover it at home if it were stolen or lost in a fire, but not if I had it out on a gig and it got stolen.

kk

lowbrassmaniac wrote:Would homeowner's insurance cover the horn if it were stolen from your car that was parked in your driveway? And what would they need to see? Company letterhead appraisal?

You are going to want to check very closely with your insurance co. if you plan on covering your horn via just your home owners policy. I have found most agents don't really have a very good handle on this and even folks at the ins. co. itself will give you very contradictory answers depending on who you talk to. You may need or want an individual rider on your horn/horns. Make sure you get in writing from them exactly what they are covering and what events. If you don't you will find that when you go to collect they will conveniently have no record of anybody there ever telling you they would cover you for the specific event that led to your loss.

In the case of just your homeowners policy remember your deductible may be more than your horn costs. Many insurance companies are using a % of your home value for deductibles these days. My policy for instance with State Farm is 1% of my primary houses value so for me if I had a YamaYork and it got stolen the deductible would be more than the horn's value and none of my horns are that expensive so I don't rely on my homeowners insurance to cover them. Another really important consideration is if you do any gigs for money. Even if you don't consider yourself a pro this can void your coverage if you aren't covered for playing for pay. And don't think an insurance co. won't find out - if they can avoid paying on a claim they will find a way not to.

So make sure you cover all your bases. I'm not an ins. agent, but I know there are some on the board who surely can provide more in-depth knowledge. I just know that over the years I've found that you really need to know the fine details of your coverage. It's easy to get tripped up.

lowbrassmaniac wrote:Would homeowner's insurance cover the horn if it were stolen from your car that was parked in your driveway? And what would they need to see? Company letterhead appraisal?

Generally the answer is no. That would be BMV (burglary, motor vehicle) which would be dealt with under your auto insurance policy, not homeowners. Where it was parked doesn't matter once items are stolen out of the vehicle based on how the police department (at least locally to me) classifies crimes.

The best way to cover high value items to to buy insurance specifically for them, either as a rider on your existing coverage or via specialty insurance like Clarion.

tofu wrote:Even if you don't consider yourself a pro this can void your coverage if you aren't covered for playing for pay.

But on the other hand ... if you aren't really anything like a professional, then maybe insurance is a waste of money.

It's a form of gambling, betting against the house, and on the average the house wins. The only way the odds could be in your favor is if you know something they don't, about risks in your situation. Which is entirely possible, they work off generic risks, but they're pretty sharp with that stuff. [ Someone pointed out, in a post that has disappeared, that insurers can make money other ways - don't put too much weight on my analysis here. ]

When it's something like sudden overwhelming medical costs, or house burns down, insurance saves the day because the money is needed and it would be hard to raise any other way. When it's a tuba, it depends - can you make do without the tuba while you round up the money to replace it? If you can, then you may prefer to keep your money and assume the risk yourself. A pro would have less flexibility there.

My $.02 worth on this topic. I use State Farm for my instrument insurance. It's under a personal articles policy. They only require an appraisal from a music dealer. I insure both my horns, my wife's two french horns and various jewelry items for my wife. It costs about the mid $200s per year. Tried to get the horns under my homeowners policy, as a rider, but for the horns to be covered they couldn't leave the house. That doesn't work well when you're freelancing.

Albert