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Folks - I am in a bit of a quandary. I am a former college tuba player who is getting back into playing after a 15-year hiatus. I am currently playing on an old beater Karl Zeiss Bb and have been given permission from my wife to cut loose some money on a nicer horn. In the running is the Mack Brass 410CC Miraclone and the Kalison Daryl Smith that is currently on ebay. The Kalison has seen some use and looks like it will need a little work. The Mack of course would be brand new (I like the silver model). I've always liked the idea of a piston horn, but I played a Miraphone 184 school horn in college and flat-out loved it.

Those of you who own and play the 410 - would I be making a mistake in giving up the Kalison? That is assuming that its auction does not go too high, which of course will make up my mind for me. The Kalison auction ends tomorrow (Dec 18, 2016) at around 4:00pm.

Can you guys give me some insight?

Thanks so much!

Welcome to tubenet!

Both of those are solid instruments, and at the price the Mack or Kalison are at now, you'd be in good shape either way.

If you can stretch your budget a bit, I'd consider checking out the Miraphone 184 Baltimore brass (a great store) has for sale for 3800. That way you'd get the experience that you remember! They have a 185 too, which is a similar horn that's just a touch bigger.

http://www.baltimorebrass.net/index.php?cat=5

Good luck making a purchase!

Is the Ziess your personal tuba, or a loaner?

Tabor wrote:Is the Ziess your personal tuba, or a loaner?

For better or worse, the Zeiss is mine. It was a $600 special on ebay. It plays, but I have to work very hard to play it in tune.

the elephant wrote:God luck. I hope this helped you out some."

Thanks - your comments (and the comments of others here) have been very instructional. I decided to to let the Kalison go. It sold for $2025, which is not much less than a brand-new Mack 410, so that's what I am going to go with. While I did have my heart set on a silver one, I was only doing it on looks alone, which is probably a silly reason. I will talk to Tom tomorrow and see what he recommends.

Thanks again to all! You have been very helpful!

So I have had the 410 for a little over two weeks now, and I really like it. There is very little about it that would remind you that it's not a real 186:

On the front of the bottom bow, it's like they didn't get the "body work" quite right as when you run your hand over it, you are aware of a very slight bit of rippling. Near as I can tell, that's the only spot on the horn that has that issue. The band that covers the seam where the bell joins with the rest of the horn has a sharper edge on it than it should - I would expect it to be eased over more. The cap on the bottom bow has a little solder flash that should have been taken care of. And the slides are not as smooth as I would like but they all work easy enough. The first valve slide will need some work.

None of these minor issues affects at all how it sounds, and it sounds great. Intonation is great. Low range is big and full. The valves work very well and feel solid. The polishing is really good - it's a really pretty horn.

The case is decent - it's sort of like a hard gig bag with wheels. The outside is a black nylon-ish fabric covering a styrofoam body with soft furry fabric inside. It's got holes inside for two mouthpieces but no place for anything else like valve oil or slide grease. The outside has a zippered pouch that is big enough to hold a band folio. The halves are secured with a zipper around the whole thing. The wheels on it do work well.

Tom has been great to work with and overall, I think it's worth much more than what I paid for it. I highly recommend it.

Congratulations on the 410! I got mine (gold brass bell) from Tom last spring after a 13-14 year hiatus coming from a Kalison Pro-2000 in college. It was a good horn but I feel that the 410 has a more focused and richer sound than I was getting out of my Kalison all those years ago. My wife agrees that the quality of my sound has improved dramatically in the last few months as well. It'd be better if I'd practice more frequently.

I agree on the intonation on the 410 as well - I put a Korg tuner with a clip-on bell mic on mine this week and it had close to perfect intonation over the entire range that I could play, and that's far better than what I got out of my Kalison or the really old Cerveny Sanders that I had before it.

The case is pretty good but really kind of unwieldy (and doesn't hold up very well as a cat scratching post, apparently). I'm thinking of ordering a Pro-Tec bag (since I prefer side loading to top loading) and hoping for the best. I'm not sure which size would work best. I would love the platinum series but the 410 might be too tall for it - anyone have any suggestions in that regard?