CSO York Specs

[swillafew]

I never met Arnold Jacobs, but I did have a nice talk with a person who was close to him. I asked my friend if he knew about the obsession with this instrument, and he said Mr. Jacobs used to like to joke about it, saying "I put all the good notes in there myself".

[Ken Crawford]

Give Richard Barth a call or an email, he'll probably have more answers than most.

[tubeast]

Maybe it´s easier to search the specs of its copies ratherthan try and find reliable YORK sources.
If Hirsbrunner, Nirschl, Yamaha and who knows who else have done as they claim, this should be easy to figure out.

[bort]

Here's a post from Lee Stofer, with some details. He probably knows the answers to your specific questions as well:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55185&p=471484#p471484" target="_blank

BTW, the weight is probably "light" or "lighter than you'd think," because they have been buffed a LOT (to much) over the years. It's hard to say if that has added to the "magic" at all, but with a very old tuba that has been very heavily used (to say the least), it's just not going to last forever.

[Tabor]

Check out the photo of Donatelli with the York (also in Brian Frederiksen's book). This is what it looked like when it was new. Popping satin finish and no damage -straight as an arrow. the valve circuts look a little different. It was lower in pitch, and he has the main slide out a bit (maybe to tune to "American Standard" pitch?) The 4th run seems a little on the short side compared to modern clones, or maybe the 1st is just pulled out and the 4th pushed in.



I'm not sure which one has the replacement conn leadpipe, replacement rotor, replacement valves made by Holton's valve maker guy, replaced tubing, fell down an elevator shaft and broke apart, or was most heavily heavily used for many, many years. My guess is the one getting play time now is the one that was out in Oklahoma and not the beauty from this photo, but I could be wrong.

[Lee Stofer]

Terry,
What specs are you interested in? I have taken some measurements of the two CSO Yorks, and they differ from each other. Basically, they made two one-off custom tubas. They are smaller than York 6/4 BBb's, and in more than just length. They are a little smaller than Holton 6/4's or the MW 2165. As I measured it, the older of the two Yorks (owned by Mr. Donatelli and then by Mr. Jacobs) has a 20 7/8" bell diameter, and has a bell that is approx 1.5" longer than the newer horn and a leadpipe that is approx. 1.5" shorter than the newer one. This is why Mr. Donatelli had problems with it and sold it to Mr. Jacobs. I once had the opportunity to play the older York for a couple of hours one day. It was a lot of fun, even though I noticed that I was fighting with it ergonomically because of the angle of the short leadpipe. My neck hurt for 3 days after that, so one would really have to get used to that horn. The newer York with the 1.5" longer leadpipe is as comfortable to play as any modern York copy. The closest copy to the original that I know of is the Boston Symphony's Nirschl-York, which has been re-fitted with a Kanstul bell. I know of no other instrument that will allow you to play even pedal notes confidently and clearly at a pianissimo dynamic level, and with such a beautiful tone quality.

[E. Green]

Mr. Jacobs once remarked that when he first obtained Donatelli's instrument it was almost impossible to play due to the smell of cigars and garlic in the leadpipe.
As we all know, these were replaced by the greatest sound in history. According to Arnold Jacobs, the York company built two such instruments, one of which was to remain as a factory reference. The second instrument was sold to a university in Oklahoma. This was the instrument Arnold Jacobs used and the one that Gene Pokorny continues to play. If the cigars and garlic story is not enough, someone should ask Bob Tucci about the shoebrush that fell into the bell...

Happy Holidays / No cigars, just garlic!

Eugene

[Alex C]

Maybe it´s easier to search the specs of its copies ratherthan try and find reliable YORK sources.
If Hirsbrunner, Nirschl, Yamaha and who knows who else have done as they claim, this should be easy to figure out.

None of the copies copied the York, they all improved it. For example, the York bore size increases in the 4th valve tubing. but the valve ports are the same size as the first three valves. THEN the tubing right after the valve block goes BACK to .750 for another "choke point." Is that bad planning or did Pops Johnson know what he was doing or was he sloppy? I think the results speak for itself.

Some of the people who copied the York Changed that design on the York for their horn. None of them copied the relatively light weight of the York.

One "copy of the York" used a Holton to get their measurements. Personally, the Nirschl is about as close to the original as I have seen but they are not particularly consistent. The Yamayork is immensely satisfying to play but it doesn't sound like a York. The Hirsbrunner has great playing characteristics but it is a "German" sound, very dark. Some of the Chinese copies are pretty good, especially for the price but they have a different sound and consistency is an issue.

But to get back to the point, if you want the York specifications, get them from one of the two Yorks. Or call Dick Barth, he took measurements from the horn Jacobs played for his entire career. You can contact him here

http://www.barthsbrassblog.com/

[Alex C]

I'm not sure which one has the replacement conn leadpipe, replacement rotor, replacement valves made by Holton's valve maker guy, replaced tubing, fell down an elevator shaft and broke apart, or was most heavily heavily used for many, many years. My guess is the one getting play time now is the one that was out in Oklahoma and not the beauty from this photo, but I could be wrong.

York No. 2 was left at a shop in Chicago and the shop removed the 5th valve and sold it. When Jake got the horn back he was so upset he sold it. I know nothing about it's reconstruction, whether it got a Conn leadpipe or a Holton valve.

York No. 1 was almost played to shreads by Jacobs and Porkorny. At one point the leadpipe had dozens of small holes and that's when they began to look at replacing it. I think the decision was to retire the instrument, any repairs would change the horn.

[Bass]

That's a new story. Any sources or just hearsay?