Air supply

[MaryAnn]

So, what do you guys do when you have a sustained FF note that goes beyond your lung capacity? I actually can circular breathe to a point on a didgeridoo, but have never been able to transfer that to tuba. The dij has a lot more resistance to it. It's not entirely smooth on the dij, and it can (and apparently should) be incorporated into the rhythmic pattern you are using. Which you make up yourself, so you're not trying to reproduce something on a page that you just turned your lungs inside out trying to play. What I'm trying to do is not mess up a performance where there is a sustained FF low note at the end. My lungs empty out really fast. Play softer? Sneak out, take a breath, sneak back in on the downbeat?

I was at a brass performance a few years ago where the tuba ran out of air on the last note, stopped playing to take a breath, and came back in at FF and it really, um, did not help overall. I don't want to be that guy.....

I blew up a plastic "grocery veggie bag" and tried to make it a cylinder shape so I could calculate the volume. I'm guessing I'm working with less than two liters, likely as little as 1.5 liter, which if you saw the picture of me and Schlep, you'll understand. I have had Sam Pilafian's breathing class so I learned how to top off, although there often simply is not time to do that during a piece.

[Doug Elliott]

What I would do, that I think makes the most sense in musical context, is to play the initial attack, then take a nice long slow breath and sneak back in the middle to hold it to the end.

[PaulMaybery]

My take is that it "smoke and mirrors." In other words, some creative way of giving the illusion that it is sustained.

Super long sustains should not need to be painful. The sustained low Eb in Das Rheingold, or that long sustain in Romeo and Juliet all have ways to get the breath. Actually in Das R. I believe the tie is broken about every 4 bars but it sounds continuous. In R & J there are several points where other instruments enter or rearticulate, making a spot for you to re-enter. Part of the trick is getting back in without a disturbing attack.

I've also found that the lip aperture should not be open more than nescessary and this will help economize the escape of air.

But I do believe it needs to be an intelligent plan rather than just a spontaneous gasp for air.

[Leland]

If you're by yourself, figure out where (or "when") there's another noise that would mask when you drop out to reload.

If there's at least one other player, rock-paper-scissors to decide who breathes first.

I'll add that I hold a sustain best when I'm very relaxed, even at FF+ volumes. I've practiced often with the same techniques Pilafian teaches; I also do a bunch of warmup exercises that encourage efficiency (play for 15, inhale for 1, etc). Being mentally and emotionally relaxed helps me, too -- if I treat FF like "MONGO PLAY LOUD!" it's gonna be loud for sure, but I don't sustain it as well and tend to breathe earlier than truly necessary.

[timothy42b]

Pray that there's a reasonably loud/distracting event in the middle of the sustained pitch .

Drop your mute here.

[MikeMason]

I would chime in but I'm all out of love

[bort]

My take is that it "smoke and mirrors." In other words, some creative way of giving the illusion that it is sustained.

Many years ago, I played in a series of yearly concerts alongside Kevin Ladd. I'm not sure the best way to describe his breathing technique, but I'd describe it as taking "sniff breaths" -- it seemed like in some places he preferred to take frequent small breaths, than to take one gigantic breath, let it all out, gigantic breath, etc.

The end result was the effect of a continuous and sustained tuba sound. To me, this was one of many things I noticed about sitting next to a professional tuba player. I can't say I learned how to do this technique, but I at least remember OF it.

[Rick Denney]

My strategy of late has been to sit next to Leland.

But my vital capacity ain't what it used to be, so I have to be strategic and breathe often. The trick is to play the phrase across the breath so that a sound interruption is not a musical interruption. I've had to take breaths in the middle of held notes, and I tend to do what someone else described--Play a good, clear attack, diminuendo to silence, grab a big breath, and sneak back in without an attach to steadily crescendo.

Most important for me is to make sure I start a note like that with a full tank. Often, get myself in trouble by not anticipating the long note.

If the composition is such that no interruption strategy can work, I play more softly.

If demand exceeds capacity, then there are only two possibilities: Make better use of capacity or manage demand.

Rick "who often plays efficient and large tubas louder than needed and creates the problem" Denney

[imperialbari]

...... the pitch can be re-started without the use of an articulation.

That is the key to the solution. No reason to attract attention by emitting one or more loudly chiffed attacks.

But then bloke also is wrong, because one cannot start or re-start a note without an attack.

Even an air-only attack may attract attention by a sligth deviation in pitch and in volume.

To me the solution is the attack type used to simulate true legato playing on the trombone. The starting consonant is L. In my language, which has more wovels than English has, the wovel in the low range (where the air problem is most acute) would be a non-raspy Å (circle a), better written OU. Which however has too high a pitch in English and hence a too narrow formation of the oral and throat cavities. Use the wovel from LOW, when you emphasize that somethis is really low. But omit any consonant function at the end of the syllable. End the first (and the consecutive) repretation of the long note in question by simply taking in air as fast as possible and then restart the note immediately with the L articulation.

If there are other wind instruments on the same note, like 4th horn, bass trombone, bassoon, or contrabassoon, plan staggered breathing with those players, so that the given note isn’t unrepresented in the winds at any given point of time.

Klaus

[Three Valves]

So, what do you guys do when you have a sustained FF note that goes beyond your lung capacity?

I fake it!!

[windshieldbug]

So, what do you guys do when you have a sustained FF note that goes beyond your lung capacity?

I put on the record!

[opus37]

Steve Mead touts the "Ultra Breathe" device as a way of increasing your air supply. There are at least 3 different manufactures of these devises. Arnold Jacobs also recommended devices for developing air volume. I wonder what experience anyone on the TNFJ has experience with such devices.

[windshieldbug]

I wonder what experience anyone on the TNFJ has experience with such devices.

My wife uses one of these in her University flute studio. They both demonstrate and encourage support utilization and quantify air usage/volume.

They are a just a tool, but if used correctly can cause students to make progress quickly.

[bort]

Deleted.... (didn't realize the funny picture was already posted)

[MaryAnn]

I think the best answer has been left out so far. I need to develop a World Class Air Supply.

[Rick Denney]

Steve Mead touts the "Ultra Breathe" device as a way of increasing your air supply. There are at least 3 different manufactures of these devises. Arnold Jacobs also recommended devices for developing air volume. I wonder what experience anyone on the TNFJ has experience with such devices.

My experience with the topic, which is consistent with what I know of Jacobs's teaching, is that vital capacity can only be marginally improved. But what can be more substantively improved is 1.) the use of the vital capacity we do have, and 2.) the speed at which we can fill it with air. Those devices work on those two attributes far more than trying to increase vital capacity.

Rick "who doesn't fill up as often or as completely as he should" Denney

[barry grrr-ero]

I think this is an issue that one shouldn't 'over-think'. What do I mean by that? . . . in all my years of trying to make music, I've NEVER talked to anybody at a concert - from the audience - that mentioned any issue with a player taking a breath in the middle of a sustained loud note. NEVER.

OK, with that established, we still want a strategy to deal with this problem. I think "smoke & mirrors" and possibly, "fast sniff breathing", are great suggestions. My sinuses are often times clogged up, so sniff breathing is a 50/50 proposition for me. I'm currently working on this by flushing my sinuses with saline before rehearsals (I'm sure you needed that info!). But when it's working, it does seem to offer a livable solution. I'm currently working on this at home (when I practice, that is). Planning ahead is important because I like to play with a big dynamic range - one of the reasons I'm playing on a Neptune. I was always frustrated with the dynamic range - without getting 'bright' or 'edgy' - on smaller tubas.

My Neptune has good projection, but it's also an air-hog down low. As I'm the only tuba in one of my bands (Santa Cruz City Band), I have to do plenty of "smoke & mirrors" planning, with breath marks written in my parts. This is pretty much what I spend my practice time on these days.

I don't have time to work on long etudes that prove that I can still keep up with the young folks (I'm past 60), so I pretty much spend my practice time - after warm ups (lots of chromatic scales) - working on my band parts and planning 'breathing strategies'. It NEVER ends up being perfect, but it certainly helps. I think I'm going to invest in the Ultra Breathe as well.

Barry Guerrero
------------------
VMI rotary Neptune CC
bigger leader pipe
G&W Baer MMIV CC m.p. (Euro)
var. other m.p.'s that work fine
Cronkhite leather bag
BabyTrend baby jogger for big parking lots
KIA mini SUV (Soul) for driving this stuff around
Chevron 89 octane gas (I know, it's more expensive but it burns nice & clean)
6 to 8 hours of sleep
tolerant partner who shows up at most of my gigs

[Rev Rob]

One of our commenters noted about being relaxed to play long sustained tones. I totally agree. When I see 4 or more measures of tied over whole notes, yes I tank up, but then sit back relax and let the air gently flow out. When playing a C or B flat below the staff depending on tempo I can last for 8 measures, without compromising my tone or pitch. Anything below a B flat below the staff is a different story. I run out of air fast.

There are times though when I encounter the opposite problem - stacking air. This happens when playing higher pitched notes, softly and having to let air out - without playing a note. The situation is sort of like holding your breath a long time, eventually you need to breathe and get fresh oxygen back into your blood stream.

[MaryAnn]

I know what you mean about stacking. Where I run into that is horn playing in bands (horn, not tuba.) As I'm sure you're aware of, we horns get to play a LOT of off beats, ad nauseam and beyond. What I developed was sniffing in AND out between notes. in, play, in play, oops stacked, up, out, play, out, play....and can regulate it that way. With tuba, playing the OOM instead of the PAH, and usually needed to be loud and low, I can pretty much sniff-inhale between notes every time. If they ever mike my face they are going to get some funny stuff on the tape. Sniff Blatt Sniff Blatt Sniff Blatt...

[tofu]

I think the master of getting the most out of ones own total lung capacity is Carol Jantsch. I was at a recital she did some years back at NU and ended up in a seat slightly behind her off to a side and was really struck at how rapidly and completely she could fill / expel her lungs. She certainly makes the most out of the capacity she has and certainly is not a large individual. It was like watching a lesson in breathing to play the tuba. I think speed / completeness of breath is perhaps even more important than total potential capacity. She clearly had no problems in sustaining notes in a long recital or the Philadelphia Orchestra.