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oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby kathott » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:05 pm

I'm not worried about damage to the sousaphone.....I don't care much about baseball.....However, I do want to know what the heck that mouthpiece is all about....Holton/Conn/King?
http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2017/01/26/214384010/null" target="_blank
Last edited by kathott on Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby hrender » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:51 pm

King 26?
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby Donn » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:30 pm

King 26.
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby Michael Bush » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:53 pm

I'm impressed that you guys can tell. I can tell that a mouthpiece is present. Good job.

I hope the owner sent him the repair bill.
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby kathott » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:51 am

Not compleatly convinced here - the outside contour seems different than my King #26. Speaking of which: how many models of King mouthpieces models were there? K.
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby Donn » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:07 am

Michael Bush wrote:I'm impressed that you guys can tell. I can tell that a mouthpiece is present.


That's what I thought about the first photo, but you can magnify the second photo to get more detail.
king26.jpg


It does look a little off, but you have to take into account some exaggeration of the highlights in the photo rendition and subsequent enlargement. And I think we're putting some weight on widely available at the time (I assume the 26 was still widely available in 1964.)
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby Donn » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:53 pm

kathott wrote:Speaking of which: how many models of King mouthpieces models were there?


Just going by perusal of the catalogues, which show the mouthpieces in cut-away illustrations so you can really see what they're up to,
  • 24 Medium size Bass with deep cup (1911)
  • 25 Monster Eb and BBb Bass large deep cup (1911)
  • 22 Small Bass, Special size for Eb bass, deep cup, medium rim (1924)
  • 26 Giant Bass, For monster BBb bass, Extra large size with deep cup (1924)

The numbers in the 1924 catalogue are actually 6022 - 6026, but the '38 catalogue goes back to 22 - 26, and that's the last catalogue information. I would guess everything but the 26 was gone pretty soon after that, but the 26 presumably lasted until what they consider the end ('65) or beyond (for all I know, UMI could be making them still in secret.)

The 26 is the only one with a deep cup, by modern standards. The rest are pretty shallow. I get a cup diameter just short of 32mm on my 26; if the catalogue illustrations are to scale, that would make the 22 around 25mm, the 24 around 28mm, and the 25 the same as the 26. Don't take these dimensions as fact, they're imprecise and the scale assumption may be wrong. I have to wonder, even if it was a century ago, who would want a shallow Schilke 51 for a bass tuba mouthpiece?

All of the tuba mouthpieces have what I would consider a relatively open throat bore. The 25 illustration shows a particularly gradual transition from the cup bottom to the throat, so while it's shallow by modern standards, it also looks kind of bottomless. Dimension may be 8.7mm like the 26.
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby hrender » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:45 am

I have a 25 and a 26. I've used the 26 (cup diameter is ~32.4 if I remember correctly), but the 25 is pretty small. I keep it mostly as a curiosity and on the odd chance I pick up an old Eb.
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby Donn » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:05 pm

The rounded over edge gives you quite a range of options for width. 32.4 fits in there, but it's wider than what I consider the cup, it's about the middle of the inner edge profile, if that conveys anything. So your 25 is really narrower than your 26? I may as well scratch all the dimension guesses above - their illustrations make the two the same width, so everything else would be suspect too.
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Re: oddball mouthpiece ID....

Postby iiipopes » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:52 am

Zombie thread alert!

The King 25 was actually the standard issue for sousaphones. There is no reason to believe it is anything else in the picture, as they looked similar. Slightly smaller cup and throat for more projection on the 25 compared to the extra deep cup on the 26.
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