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York Eb Question

Postby bigboymusic » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:56 am

Just picked up a 100+ year old 4V front action York Eb. I am very used to old Eb tendencies and issues. Overall, this horn does not have many of these. GORGEOUS sound in and above the staff. The valves are a bit leaky and will need to be redone in the future.

The one noticeable thing right now is that the 4th valve is very woofy with no center unless you really lock in. Even then its scary. I'm sure that getting the valves done will help some, but I really don't think it's a bad note on the horn like some old big Eb's. Would just being out of alignment cause this sort of reaction?

Also, best rec's for getting that 100 year old tarnish and build up? Elbow grease so far isn't touching some of it....

I'm using a SH-II right now and it's not bad. Any thoughts on the SH-IIF?? Other options that may be good with a non-PT-10 ish American style solo horn???
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby KiltieTuba » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:04 pm

Clean well first, the applies some Tarn-X as directed. Wash that off, then follow up with some Tarnishield. It will take a while, but it's worth it.

Also, check for leaks in the fourth valve tubing.
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby GC » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:37 pm

You might try really heavy oil (like light slide oil) in the 4th valve. If it improves, you know leakage from a worn valve is at least part of the problem.
JP/Sterling 377 Eb; 1914 Conn Monster Eb (for sale; my avatar), ca. 1905 Fillmore Bros 1/4-size Eb; Warburton "The Grail" T.G.4, Mr. P 6.4; for sale: Bach 42B trombone; recently retired from bass guitar after 44 years
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby bigboymusic » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:24 pm

Yes, the more I play this horn, the more I'm glad I lived within 20 minutes of where it was. Got it for a song, and it plays very nice now, but with a valve job, I have a feeling it will be a beautiful addition. And for those that know what it costs for a valve rebuild, trust me. With the VERY little I have in an already good horn, it is worth the change.. Probably under 3K total in the horn when it's all done...

IMG_0073.JPG


This will be primarily my quintet and chamber horn. I personally don't mind the dark tarnish, but my wife, who gave the ok for the purchase, does not. Looks like a weekend of elbow grease!!!!!

And just a plug... Joseph Felton and Heritage Music in KC, MO. My second dealing with them and worth every bit. Joe will be in charge of the valve block and some leadpipe work.....
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby YORK-aholic » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:21 pm

I have used a 'trick' for tarnish that has worked well for me.

Line the bath tub with heavy aluminum foil. Add HOT water and mix in sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) in as you go. Insert tuba in bath tub.

Most of the tarnish transfers to the foil. What is left on the horn comes off quite easily by rubbing with cloth, paper towel, etc. Any stubborn spots get some polish. 'ragging' the nooks and crannies with strips of old t shirt finishes the job.

Google it first as I'm not sure of sodium bicarbonate or sodium carbonate, or what. Might be baking powder. But you get the idea. It has worked well on several of my old horns that came to me in pretty ratty condition.

Nice find. I may have a York Eb mouthpiece for that horn. PM me if you're interested.
Some old Yorks, Martins and maybe a rotary King...
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby roweenie » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:02 pm

Very nice find!

What is the bell diameter, and could you possibly post a "full frontal and rear" picture?

Thanks, and good luck!
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby imperialbari » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:57 pm

roweenie wrote:What is the bell diameter, and could you possibly post a "full frontal and rear" picture?


Ditto, thanks!

Plus a measuring of the bore (inner diameter of the 2nd slide. Also of the 4th slide if different from the 2nd).

For the freaks photos that emulate the original blueprints by being taken parallel to the main plane of the tuba are preferrable, as they allow for an analysis of the architechture, the airpath, and the bore progression. Further photos of details including the serial-# and the state of the pistons are most welcome. Readable shots of the engravings often are hard to get due to the reflections, but supplementary photos showing various parts of the engravings are helpful.

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Re: York Eb Question

Postby bigboymusic » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:29 am

Here are some pics

http://imgur.com/a/Chq52
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby bigboymusic » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:24 am

The bell is 19 1/2, 34 inches tall. I can't find my calipers at the moment, but I think he measured the second at .657???
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby imperialbari » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:48 pm

Thanks!

Those pistons are visibly old, but they are by far not the worst ones I have seen. As for leaks I would be more worried about the leadpipe.

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Last edited by imperialbari on Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby bigboymusic » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:35 pm

Well, a colleague and I spent some time hunting leaks yesterday. Believe it or not, none in that worked over leadpipe, and none in any of the valve tubing. It is definitely a valve issue...

The longer I play it, the more it kind of amazes me how well in tune this thing plays. A little pulling in the low F range and f in the staff can be lipped, but locks 1-3...

I am going to experiment with a Schilke HIIF.

The more I play the 4th valve, it does seem to just be a problem with centering the Bb below the staff. It is the same with 1-3. The low G 134 barks! Its just that one pitch.....
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby roweenie » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:01 pm

Wow - that's a very interesting horn, and an awesome find. I'm betting it was likely a custom job back in the day - I've never seen a 4th valve wrapped quite like that...

In my experience, It's not uncommon for monster E flats to be squirrely, in varying degrees, on those pitches (low Bb, A and Ab). The center usually returns around the low G. I find that a Rose Solo mouthpiece can be helpful in centering those pitches.
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby imperialbari » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:02 am

Does a thicker oil, like for sewing machines, help on the playability of problem notes?

Does the low Bb improve if the main tuning slide is pushed all the way in?

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Re: York Eb Question

Postby jeopardymaster » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:27 pm

Sounds like a trip to Lee Stofer might be in order.
Gnagey CC, VMI Neptune 4098 CC, Mirafone 184-5U CC and 56 Bb, Besson 983 EEb and euphonium, King marching baritone, Alexander 163 BBb, Conn 71H/112H bass trombone, Olds Recording tenor trombone.
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby Michael Bush » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:46 pm

bigboymusic wrote: tarnish, but my wife

My wife gets yours completely. As tubas come and go around here, lacquer always leads to rejoicing, because she does a lot of the laundry. Tarnish is not her friend.

That is a remarkable horn and a great find. I'd love to find a vintage four-valve front action non-compensating Eb. (Not right now though. Selling stuff off to get ready for another move. In six months though...)

Congratulations!
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby YORK-aholic » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:16 pm

If you think about it, that squirrelly low BBb is the equivalent of the famous low CC on F tubas...

Just sayin'
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Re: York Eb Question

Postby KiltieTuba » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:21 am

YORK-aholic wrote:If you think about it, that squirrelly low BBb is the equivalent of the famous low CC on F tubas...

Just sayin'


Suddenly my issues with Eb all make more sense!
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