The new Perantucci PT606P?

[Arthur plays tuba]

I've heard some discussions about this horn in tubenet, and I want to know more about it:

1. In compare to a MW 2145, is the projection of the sound better?
2. Will the bigger body make it less all-around, comparing to the 2145? I play solo music as much as orchestral music, but I can't afford two horns.
3. Anyone have a clue about pricing? I live in Hong Kong and I'm not available to phone overseas.

Thanks for your advice

[Paul S]

I've heard some discussions about this horn in tubenet, and I want to know more about it:

1. In compare to a MW 2145, is the projection of the sound better?

Quick answer is Yes very much better. I found it to be the sweetest sounding horn out there and the one that put out the most sound for me and my now more limited lung capacity. The horn is in the same class as the MW2000 as it is more "handmade" 5/4 than other tubas out there and it shows in both the build and sound quality. It also actually has the same valve set as the MW2000, MW 2155 & 2165 as B&S, VMI & MW are sister companies.

2. Will the bigger body make it less all-around, comparing to the 2145? I play solo music as much as orchestral music, but I can't afford two horns.

The horn is very mouthpiece sensitive and gives you different personalities with changes. It can be very light sounding and articulate and yet can be turned very dark and big to make the light grid move too. It is an "American" tuba sound of mass versus laser-like projection though. I am using mine with full orchestra, a large concert band, brass quintet and for solos in church equally well even though I also have a smaller F. There are certainly situations where the F is better but I could easily get by with the 606 alone.

3. Anyone have a clue about pricing? I live in Hong Kong and I'm not available to phone overseas.

I am not sure about Asian pricing but they are going to run the same as a PT-6P. The current price posted on the European Perantucci.com site is 7750 Euro for Laquer and 8250 Euro for Silver. This site is at: http://www.hornboerse.de/lshop,showdeta ... r41,,,.htm

I have photos of my PT-606 (also called the GR-41 with GR short for Grand Rapids) at: http://www.angus1.com/tuba/gr41.htm

Good Luck with your new horn search.
Paul

[rodmathews]

As a very happy PT-6P owner who has been to the B&S factory in Markneukirchen, I want to clarify what "handmade" usually means. A truly "handmade" instrument has branches and other components that are shaped completely by hand. This means that the metal has a very consistent thickness, and these horns usually respond much better. This also means MUCH more labor, and the instruments usually cost much more. The only horns that are really in this category are the Nirschl, most Hirsbrunners, and the MW2000. It doesn't usually refer to how the instrument is assembled.

None of the B&S instruments are handmade in this aspect. The branches are all made with hydraulics, where the branches are placed inside of a metal mold and then expanded with water under high pressure. This results in lower manufacturing costs, but the parts now have varying thicknesses based on how much the metal had to be stretched at various points. This is one reason that these horns tend to be heavier than the hand-made instruments. If you are ever fortunate enough to have a 2155 and a 2000 for a side-by-side test, you'll see what I mean. The dimensions and components look the same, but the physical weight and the response are VERY different.

The B&S instruments are all *assembled* by hand, and they do take a lot of care in making sure that things line up correctly and that the instrument isn't stressed after it's soldered together. These aren't just slammed together in high volume. They have tremendous pride in their workmanship, and the factory is very impressive.

It's also interesting that the Meinl-Weston tubas are assembled near Munich, but they are lacquered or plated in Markneukirchen at the B&S factory. The Meinl-Weston horns also all use valves and other components from B&S, as do other makers including Hirsbrunner. As I understand it there are really only a couple of places in Europe to get valve sets for tubas, and B&S makes most of them.

To answer the original post, I haven't played a 606 but I'm very happy with my PT-6P. I probably wouldn't shell out the extra bucks for a handmade version if it were available, since mine works very well for what I do. If I ever feel the need to upgrade to the latest version of the instrument, a 606 would be the first instrument I looked at. If I were buying a new instrument, I would start with the 606. Get the latest improvements if you are buying a horn and you like this style of B&S!

Hope that helps,

Rod

[Cameron Gates]

To answer the original post, I haven't played a 606 but I'm very happy with my PT-6P. I probably wouldn't shell out the extra bucks for a handmade version if it were available, since mine works very well for what I do. If I ever feel the need to upgrade to the latest version of the instrument, a 606 would be the first instrument I looked at.
Rod

I'm not sure what you mean here. As I read your statement it seems as if you are saying the 606 is a new version of the PT-6. This is not true. If I misread, please forgive.

I love it when Paul responds to PT606 info requests. He nails it. If you want another 2 cents, here it is:

1. This horn kicks butt.
2. You can play it in any size ensemble or solo with it and get fantastic results.
3. The horn is very responsive
4. It is built like a brick bathroom
5. It is FUN to play. This is important, at least for me.
6. It is a little spendy. Not as much as a 2000 but probably a little more than a 2155 (I'm guessing). You get so much more for not much more money.
7. Everyone should own a PT606.

Can you tell I love the horn?

Cameron Gates

[Paul S]

4. It is built like a brick bathroom
Cameron Gates

I believe you mean Brick House.

Actually I think Cameron was being very "Trumanesque" by not using the best known two word term for bathrooms made of brick... Apparently playing at the White House all the time has rubbed off on Cameron...


For those youngsters who have not done their historical homework.. 2nd word is house and the first is another word for manure that Bess Truman worked to get Harry to refrain from using ion the Oval office so often...

[Kevin Miller]

Built like a "backstein shiste haus"? From a German-English dictionary. Forgive any syntax errors I may have committed.

[rodmathews]

Interesting. I thought the 606 was a replacement for the PT-6, but I can't find where I got that idea!

I do recall from talking to Tucci that the PT-6P was meant as a scaled-down replacement for the Yorkbrunner, and also has it's roots in a York-style tuba. The marketing talk on Custom Music's web site also talks about how the PT-606 was designed from a York tuba (owned by Rick Denney?), but I can see how it would be a different instrument from the PT-6P.

Anybody done a blow-by-blow comparison of the PT-6P to the PT-606? Anybody know if B&S is going to keep making both instruments? They seem awful similar.

I also found it interesting how Custom calls out one of the weaknesses of J.W. York handmade instruments in their marketing piece on the PT-606:

"The weaknesses were caused by inconsistencies in fabrication of the large, hand-bent bows, resulting in faulty intonation."

You can find the full piece at:
http://www.custommusiccorp.com/tubas/pt606p.html

I looked on the B&S website, and couldn't find anything on the 606. Their site is a bit stale:
http://www.vogtlaendische-musik.de/tuba/

Rod

[Cameron Gates]

Nice pic LV. Are those just part of your stable at home?

[Tubaguyjoe]

thanks for all the great input guys. Im going to Custom and WWBW next month and the pt606p was one of the horns I was really interested in. I appreciate all the input from those of you who play the horn. Ill be sure and play this horn next month.

[TubaTodd]

The new PT606 sounds great but I could never own one. Yes, it is pricey (from what I have heard), but that isn't the reason. I owned a 2165 and the "Big Valves" about killed my hands. I wonder why the big valves are being used so much. Are there any other tubists out there who also dislike that particular valve set.

A friend of mine built a custom 6/4 BBb Holton with a Meinl Weston "Big Valve" set. A month or so after he started playing it he agreed that the stretch was a bit much. He's stilling playing and loving that horn, so I guess he got used to it.

I have a feeling my next tuba (if there will be one) will have rotary valves. To me the spatulas are more comfortable and the valve stroke is better. Then again....we could debate that all day.

[Arthur plays tuba]

The new PT606 sounds great but I could never own one. Yes, it is pricey (from what I have heard), but that isn't the reason. I owned a 2165 and the "Big Valves" about killed my hands. I wonder why the big valves are being used so much. Are there any other tubists out there who also dislike that particular valve set.

Is a conn 56J using big valves?

[Cameron Gates]

The new PT606 sounds great but I could never own one. Yes, it is pricey (from what I have heard), but that isn't the reason. I owned a 2165 and the "Big Valves" about killed my hands. I wonder why the big valves are being used so much. Are there any other tubists out there who also dislike that particular valve set.

I have very small hands (stop laughing) and have found the 606's valves very comfortable. Overall the instrument is THE most comfortable I have ever tried. This is one of the reasons I bought it.

Cameron Gates

[Paul S]

I have very small hands (stop laughing) and have found the 606's valves very comfortable. Overall the instrument is THE most comfortable I have ever tried. This is one of the reasons I bought it.

Cameron Gates

I have always thought my hand stretch was considered a smaller one as well and yet I have no fatigue at all playing my 606. I was even able to play recently with a broken little finger on the right hand by moving the fourth over to cover. The Thumb ring and 5th vlave placement are perfect in my thinking and perhaps this makes the difference.

The horn was the most comfortable one I tried and I played a lot of different brands and models this past year before buying. The only issue I have with the 606 is being able to press the 4th valve button down at the same time as depressing the 4th valve water key with the same hand. That is a Stttrreeetttccch for me!

Paul

[Charlie Goodman]

A. I really have a problem with that reach as well, and I'm well over six feet tall and pretty skinny.

B. You know what they say about you guys with small hands...

[rascaljim]

You know... I looked at the picture of the pt6 and the 606 and I looked at my 2000 and they may be the same pistons, but the slides off the valves look very different between the MW and the PT. Of course there will be a difference with this for sound and response along with the hand rolled bows.
From what I've seen there's a very nice 2000 for sale that you could probably get a really good deal on. You should definitely consider it.

I may be partial because I own one, but it took me 3 years to come to the decision.

My 2c
Jim

[Dylan King]

I have very large hands and dig the big valves.

I have a small problem with my little Yamaha 621 F tuba. Being so tall and large, I tend to open the spit valve at the bottom from time to time by accident when moving around while playing. Something in my lap keeps bumping against the lever. I think I'm going to have to remove it and just use the dump method.

[Joe Baker]

...Something in my lap keeps bumping against the lever. I think I'm going to have to remove it...

[Charlie Goodman]

Hee hee, dump method.

[Paul S]

...Something in my lap keeps bumping against the lever. I think I'm going to have to remove it...

But what is MSM going to remove and what kind of dump method will be the replacement... Sounds painful, drastic and detrimental to raising a family!

[Tom Holtz]

I have a small problem with my little Yamaha 621 F tuba. Being so tall and large, I tend to open the spit valve at the bottom from time to time by accident when moving around while playing. Something in my lap keeps bumping against the lever. I think I'm going to have to remove it and just use the dump method.

I used a shoulder strap a few times to carry my 621 F on stand-up gigs, and have used the shoulder strap ever since, even when sitting. It gets the tuning slide and spit valve out of my lap, gets the mouthpiece up to my face easily, helps my posture, etc. etc... The horn is just too small to sit in my lap and be played comfortably. Try wearing your 621 on your shoulder--it may bug the hell out of you at first, give it a chance...