F tuba

[unctuba]

Hello all, I'm trying to buy an f tuba and I'm currently in my second year at college, but funds are a little short, I need some advice on why I need one as a professional musician. I know what tuba I want it's just convincing my family to loan me the rest of the money I need! Thanks for the help.

[THE TUBA]

It really depends on your goals as a performer.

The need for an F Tuba really comes from the literature you expect to perform. Solo, Orchestral, and Small Ensemble literature is often composed with the F tuba in mind. Although it is not impossible to perform this repertoire with a contrabass (BBb or CC), you'll find that it is often much easier to achieve the desired effects on a bass tuba (Eb or F).

In general, bass tubas are a little more agile, easier to play in the upper register, have a brighter timbre and a more compact sound, and are easier to perform articulately. [This isn't always the case, and can vary from horn to horn and performer to performer] Bass tubas are used as solo instruments much more often than contrabass tubas for these reasons. Accordingly, much of the upper-level tuba solo repertoire is written with bass tubas in mind. (Again, not impossible to perform these works on contrabasses, but more difficult to achieve)

There are not many professional performance jobs out there for tuba players, and some of them require the use of a bass tuba. If you are looking to become a professional player, it would be inadvisable to limit the already small job market even further to just jobs that only use contrabass horns. Although there are certainly some professional tubists that primarily use contrabass tubas for their occupations, many if not most of those players still own bass tubas for when the need arises. To put it simply, if you want to be a professional tuba player, you're most likely going to need a bass tuba, be it F or Eb.

Because you're an education/performance double major, it is reasonable to expect that you'll be required to complete an undergraduate tuba performance curriculum. Most performance degrees prepare (or at least attempt to prepare) you to be a professional musician. For tubists, that means that learning how to play F tuba and F tuba repertoire (solos, excerpts, etc) is an important part of the curriculum. You may need an F tuba to complete the requirements for your performance degree.

If you plan to be a teacher/band director, however, there's no real need to purchase an F tuba. As a teacher though, I more often use an F tuba to model than CC. Hurts my brain less when I have to play F horn or trumpet parts.

[swillafew]

You can learn everything you need on the horn you have already. The higher pitched horn affords some comfort and facility, but it won't change the basics of what you're doing. Take your time and be patient. Consider all the trombone, euphonium and horn players that own one key of instrument and be like them for the time being.

[Tubanomicon]

Please excuse the plug, but if you're looking for an affordable F tuba, I have a Wessex Berg available for $2500 here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=77213" target="_blank

The horn plays beautifully, and it's friendly to a college student's budget.

[imperialbari]

Hello all, I'm trying to buy an f tuba and I'm currently in my second year at college, but funds are a little short, I need some advice on why I need one as a professional musician. I know what tuba I want it's just convincing my family to loan me the rest of the money I need! Thanks for the help.

The most convincing reason for your family to loan you that money would be a listing of the mandatory repertory for you to study within the next year, which cannot be performed on your current tuba. Especially if the list is presented on college stationary and if you can make your teacher sign the list with an official stamp and all.

Klaus

[ckalaher1]

I bought a used F tuba on a college student budget many years ago (B&S PT model). Fortunately (for me, I suppose) they were considerably cheaper back then.

For me, it became my "go to" instrument within a few months. Used it in several quintets, for recital rep, and in concerts with the handful of smaller orchestras that I was playing with. It's true.....great players can do it all on one horn......I was not and am not one of those people.

So, to answer your question, the best reason I could give is that the investment made to purchase an F tuba paid for itself and then some in relatively short order. Made making music easier, made mediocrity sound better, and allowed me to find a little more work because of the aforementioned reasons. And on top of that, I guess I just kind of like the sound that an F tuba makes. To each his or her own. I'm sure there are many more qualified than myself who believe otherwise. You may (or may not) want to consult your instructor to help you come to a conclusion.

Good luck with the decision and your search.

[pjv]

The thing with tubas is that our history is short and not exactly linear. So different tubas have developed over the years in different places. We don't just have one tuba. (The tuba communities best kept secret, probably because, well who really cares).
But really, very very different tubas; and with a repertoire to match. Considerably less standardised than the rest of the brass family.

Now you can play Debussy's Nocturnes on a 6/4 BBb tuba and if you play well it should should sound really nice. Arguably however this is not the right tool for this job. Possibly like playing the first trombone part on a F contrabass trombone. But the tuba player, being the only one in their section can do whatever they bloody well like to. Nobody will dare to criticise your choice of a tuba if you nail the part. Fair enough, I guess. (Oh, sorry, unless the bell's pointing to the right and you don't live in a commonwealth country, right??).

Anyway, compositions eventually get played by foreign orchestras, musicians move around, instruments get sold over the border, so it becomes practically impossible to pin point which tuba should be used for which compositions. And so here we are in 2017 and most composers don't really even know what they are writing for. It's just a tuba to them.
And to the audience.
And to your family.

You can do it all on one tuba. Really. The only point in playing different tubas is to do justice to the composition and to get the best out of your playing skills (possibly by making the job easier).

[eupher61]

Do you NEED an F, as an undergrad? Absolutely not. There are very few things you can't play on BBb or CC. Period.

F tuba is a different animal. PItch tendancies, fingerings, sound...you'll do much better for yourself if you wait a bit, go as far as you can on your current instrument, and worry about it later. I would by all means advise that you have access to an F for a relatively long-term, as in at least a few months of steady playing on it, working up several pieces. What F doesn't matter, but get used to the sound, the feel, the Zen of the F. THEN worry about buying one. You can also save up some money and not have to depend on your family!

[adam0408]

You're in your second year? You don't need it. It is a HUGE investment to buy an f, and its not going to help you a whole lot. A lot of things change over time, and you may find that the f does not pull its weight. You will only need it if you get into post graduate study (at which point you should consult your professor) and that is a really shaky proposition anyway for a 6-10 grand investment. Don't do it.

I hate to say that you shouldn't do something you want to, but I'm going to do it right now. DO NOT BUY AN F. It won't help you. Unless you have a bunch of money sitting around that you have nothing to do with...

[adam0408]

I'll take another moment to say what F tuba is for.

F tuba is simply another tambre. It will not make your high range better, it will not make you a better sounding player, it will only be a different animal for you to struggle with.

F tubas, even the best ones, are stuffy in the low range, and only magnify your already existing problems. They are not a fun alternative, and they do not play easily.

Again, I hate to say it because it is so cliche, but work on your low range. It'll make you a lot more money than trying to buy a fancy new horn.

[adam0408]

I'll say this too... you could buy a car for 500 bucks, have a bunch of fun with it running into things and then drown it in a quarry, and you will have had a way better experience than a several thousand dollar f tuba.

[Dan Tuba]

If you're interested in performing this kind of literature at this level, you will "probably" "eventually" need to invest in a "bass tuba." https://youtu.be/GyiDwtve-LY" target="_blank

There are a "few" types of professional careers available to a tubist. Of those "few" career opportunities, a "bass tuba" isn't necessarily a requirement, but it can certainly make life easier and afford you the opportunity to make more music.

I would advise careful consideration before going into debt, or asking a family member to go into debt to purchase a "bass tuba."

Good luck to you in school and in your future performance aspirations!

[ckalaher1]

Just an addendum to my previous message: try not to borrow money from your family, as that has a tendency to elicit a politics-at-the-Thanksgiving-table emotion from some, for good reason.

Just bank some money for a bit and find a decent used model that suits you. It seems that Eb/F's are not rare. If you hate it, sell it to somebody else. You may find that a small (184-like) CC tuba suits you better. Or you may find that your CC does everything and you hate learning a new horn. Who knows........ Like I said in my first post, a bass tuba has always made playing music easier for ME, and paid for itself faster than any other instrument that I have purchased. And I like the way it sounds (which may be something to give real consideration to....maybe the sound is/isn't for you).

Man, F tuba ownership gets some weird feedback. I sometimes wonder if there are more emotions in play than just "low register response".

[jtuba]

F tubas, even the best ones, are stuffy in the low range, and only magnify your already existing problems. They are not a fun alternative, and they do not play easily.

I recommend you try more F tubas. In my experience, the F tubas that don't have these problems may tend to be less "German" in their sound, but are still quite good. My first F was a chore to play, my current choice not so much.

[PaulMaybery]

[/quote]

I recommend you try more F tubas. In my experience, the F tubas that don't have these problems may tend to be less "German" in their sound, but are still quite good. My first F was a chore to play, my current choice not so much.[/quote]

Wise comment: My contention is there are many F tubas out there both new and previously owned and for my take, most are problematic to the degree that makes me not want them.

I've been playing F tuba regularly since 1970. I know, I'm old, but I can still kick some butt.

Several things that I look for:

Great Intonation. Many have odd quirky patterns. Often the high C is unfixably flat and the C in the staff and the notes fingered from it are sharp. Low registers that are all over the place. Sometimes a tuba will have great intonation but not much harmonic complexity when it comes to an interesting sound. F tubas take more fingers in the low end and do not need to be anymore difficult. I hate "adult fingerings" and have no time for them.

Great Sound: A stuffy low register is not a good thing, especially with the great horns that are now available.
A singing liquid quality is a nice feature as well. I depends, I believe if you want an F tuba for solos or orchestra.
A large, easy and resonant low register is not too much to expect.

Size and scale of the instrument: In reference to the above, 4/4. 5/4 & 6/4 F tubas are very different when compared to each other. A large F used for orchestra may have more quirks to deal with than the smaller horn. This is common also with 6/4 CC BATs. I would not care to be fussing with a quirky tuba if I were doing solos. Too much else to think about. But ya know, pulling a few slides in some orchestra parts is not that big of a deal.

I believe that finding an F tuba involves some compromise. BUT, if there is something about it that drives you "nutz" then don't get it. You will have to live with it, and you should actually love your instruments as they are an extension of your musicianship.

I happen to have 2 F tubas. A 6/4 and a 4/4. Two very different tubas. I suppose one will eventually win out and I will wind up with just one. And right now I am thinking that intonation is the biggest factor.

Just my two cents.

One more thing. Just as there are large and small F tubas, the mouthpieces that are available also vary. I generally use a standard size Helleberg type for most work, but for solos tend to favore a more shallow cup. You do not need to be limited to just one. I happen to like the Monette 94 and the 94F (as a solo mp). For a sweeter enemble sound on the F I find the Stofer-Geib is a fabulous piece.

[TheGoyWonder]

If it just goes up to C or even D just wail it on a contrabass. European BBb rotary tubas have excellent high ranges especially with not-big funneled mouthpiece.
Bass tuba does have a certain spunk that contrabass has less of... well-cupped mouthpiece like PT-82 can somewhat approximate it.

[Tom Waid]

F tubas, even the best ones, are stuffy in the low range, and only magnify your already existing problems. They are not a fun alternative, and they do not play easily.

Not all F tubas are stuffy in the low register. Kanstul, Yamaha, BMB, and others have good low registers.

[pjv]

To reiterate; F tuba's are a different instrument and you will have better luck if you treat them as such. Different sound, different air distribution, different musical impact.
It's not about high register/low register. It's about playing a smaller instrument and what kind of effect this has on the music you are playing. (your chops are the same; they'll play as high or as low as you are capable of playing).
F tuba's, especially German style F's have a certain sound. If thats too specific you can choose a different type of F or play an Eb.
Because they are different instruments it could be quite to your advantage to start playing one as soon as your teacher and you both agree that this is a good step to take.

Price; you can buy a new Wessex Berg for about $3300. Now that's not a bad price for a first F tuba.

[Rick Denney]

Most orchestra professionals seem to end up owning an F (or Eb) tuba, so I suppose they need them. The tone of a grand orchestral contrabass doesn't always work in the 'cello register, and sounds a bit like a string bass playing a 'cello work. Yes, it can be done, but it's a compromise. If it's really like a 'cello work, a sweet-sounding F tuba will just do better.

If you want to learn F, the most important thing to guide a purchase is that you will have to be incredibly lucky to get a first F that becomes something you can grow old with. The fit of an F to the player is more demanding than with a contrabass, it seems to me, given that it is a secondary instrument that is harder to grow into. My advice is that when you are able to buy one responsibly, get a cheap one that basically works. Learn to make music on it. Then, you'll be empowered to find one that really works for you. You could spend a lot on a first F tuba and quite easily get one that does not work for you effectively, as has been reported in this thread.

If you end up being an amateur, then buy what you want when you can pay for it. No further justification is required. Do it for the sheer fun of it. There are pieces of music I love playing on contrabass, and pieces that make me look forward to picking up the F. For music written in and above the staff, the F tuba will be easier and more 'cello-like. You'll be less apt to hear "That was pretty good--I didn't know a tuba could do that" instead of "Bravo!"

But below the staff, F tubas are more work to play in tune with a good sound.

I use an F in quintet, and some quintets seem to spend time on the staff, and others spend time below the staff. The F is a compromise on the latter, the Bb on the former. C or Eb would probably be less of a compromise from each direction. An F tuba can stand in for a bass trombone far more easily than the reverse, in my view.

My first F tuba was a 4-valve Musica, probably from Czechoslovakia, but marked from Austria. It was rather oinky below the staff, but it wasn't bad. I went from that to a Yamaha 621, and that was a significant improvement in playability. I still have the Yamaha, but now usually play a B&S 3099--the true graduated bore version as with the original B&S Symphonie. These are really excellent, but they are not like playing a contrabass. I have to play mine often.

Rick "who bought it for fun, and has been abundantly rewarded by the fun that has been had" Denney

[pjv]

Don't musicians playing musicals often us an Eb?
Isn't there a considerable amount of opera and ballet music which uses bass tuba?
All three of these genres are a typical place to find a tuba player paying the bills.