Yamaha 851 F tuba at BBC?

[bort]

Ok, what's the story on this one?

A used Yamaha 851 5 valve rotary compensating F tuba. The 4th valve activated compensating system on this instrument allows for excellent intonation and response in the low register. A real horn of interest! Used, no case.

[THE TUBA]

Was just about to make a post before I saw this one. I'm intrigued.

I've never heard of _51 series Yammies before. Is this a new design? A custom "one-off" from Yamaha? Prototype? Franken horn? The bell flare and open bugle looks similar to that of the YFB-621 F. Aspects of the valve wrap are similar to that of the YFB-621, too.

Very interesting that it is compensating AND has a fifth valve. I can't think of any other compensating rotary F tubas out there. I know there are some compensating E-flats around, but those (that I know of) are piston and only 4-valve.

I'm very curious to hear how this compensating rotary 621 plays. Anyone feel like driving up to BBC?

[bigboymusic]

Assuming double stack rotors where the thumb redirects through the upper level (except 4).....

[barry grrr-ero]

Never mind, my bad.

[PaulMaybery]

I tried this one at the Army Conference and felt it calling out to me like a puppy at the pound. But not quite enough to pop for it. I heard rumors from BB staff that Yamaha had made two of these back a quite a while, one it was said was for John Fletcher. That is only hearsay, but who knows.
I was not quite sure how it all worked and figured it might just be enough to explode my poor little brain trying to explain it to someone who actually might be interested in knowing more about it. Though I did find it to have quite a fine sound. And... certainly it would attract a certain attention from certain tuba gear folks. I'm happy with my standard 5v F tubas.

Interesting anecdote about John Fletcher. He often complained about the quirks in his Holton CC BAT and then about a totally different set of quirks with his Rudi. He said that he alternated between them when one began to bug him too much. When I mentioned a really fine CC Hirsbrunner I had just played a Phil Parker's with almost perfect intonation, he replied that such a near-perfect horn would be even worse than one with obvious intonation problems. Such a perfect tuba would likely have more instances of intonation problems in the LSO as the Basses, Cellos, Bass Trombone, Bassoons all had their idea of intonation patterns and he was stuck in the middle of all that and was constantly adjusting to whatever was most dominant. His other take was that these very well tempered tubas with great pitch also seemed to be missing that "nasty" element that is so often needed in fortissimo playing.

[Pete Link]

Talked to one of the Yamaha tuba designers over here about this horn. As already mentioned, it is indeed an F/CC tuba. He said this was a creation which came about several years back as an(thought to be) answer to the Gronitz double tuba. It never panned out due to apparent intonation issues and lack of interest. Interesting piece of tuba history nonetheless and won't break the bank.

[barry grrr-ero]

Just starring at this thing, I don't see how it could be a true double tuba. I wish someone knowledgeable could explain. The F side tubing coming off of each valve looks very short - far shorter than the compensating tubing that was on two my Besson 'eefers'.

[Sam Gnagey]

I used to own one of these.....maybe this very one. It came from England with the story that Yamaha had made it for John Fletcher. I sold it to a collector in Texas. Nice playing F with a decent low register.

[MikeMason]

So,same size/sound as 621?

[bisontuba]

It is on hold according to their website...

[Sam Gnagey]

So,same size/sound as 621?

It is a bit larger than the 621.

[bort]

Interesting history, thanks!

I have to say though, there is zero information that makes me interested in this tuba.

Who knows what other oddities await from Mike's collection...?

[arpthark]

Just starring at this thing, I don't see how it could be a true double tuba. I wish someone knowledgeable could explain. The F side tubing coming off of each valve looks very short - far shorter than the compensating tubing that was on two my Besson 'eefers'.

Well, the extra tubing needed to bring a tuba from Eb down to Bb is longer than the tubing needed to bring F down to C, so it would make sense the slides are shorter.

The fourth valve slide looks to be long enough - it snakes from the upper right, doglegs back down through the compensating slides, and you can see where it loops back behind the tuba near where the leadpipe enters the fifth valve slide. The main tuning slide is the horizontal one on the left side of the image.

[barry grrr-ero]

Never mind, my bad. I see now that it IS labeled as a "compensating" F tuba, and not a true double.

[tclements]

Is there a picture of this thing somewhere?

[bort]

Doesn't Jim Self own something like this?

Sorry, I didn't save the photo from BBC. Might be in Klaus' archive?

[cjk]

Did anyone save the picture of this?

[T. J. Ricer]

I really wanted to get my hands on that horn, but was second on the commit to buy list and it ended up being shipped back to Japan...

-T. J.

[Sam Gnagey]

I owned it for several years. I found it at a place in LaPort, IN that had a business fixing up used instruments and exporting them to Europe. The F side is quite good. I think the double concept was to improve the low register more than being useful as a CC. There were so many combinations for the low register I could always find one that worked well.