TubeNet

Has anyone tried this particular horn?
Isn't it the same one that has the octaves that don't line up?
I need a cheap F tuba and I was wondering if this world work. I live across the country from this horn, so trying it out isn't an option.
Thanks

If you call and talk to them, the guys at BBC will give you an honest opinion and they also offer a trial period.

I owned the same model M&M F tuba and played it consistently for about 6 months. They can be somewhat functional, however it takes a lot of work to overcome the intonation inconsistencies. I would advise saving your money. If you're in need of an inexpensive bass tuba, the 981 EEb copies work very well. I learned how to play EEb on one of these, and it doesn't take as long as you think. Jim Laabs is selling the 981 copies for $1785 on eBay. I know that they don't have the best "customer service" or "quality control," however I've had fairly good experiences with Jim Laabs.

re: Chinese horns: I'll echo Dan's sentiments. I was hesitant buying a Chinese horn, but I bought his Schiller (Laabs) Eb comp and I'm really impressed with it. Intonation, build quality, valves have been doing great under near-daily use for the past few weeks.

re: the F tuba at BBC: I can't speak for that particular instrument, but that particular model is a bit of a stinker. I remember lots of creative fingerings when I spent about a half hour on one a few years ago. I'm sure Dave and crew will give you a fair assessment.

Thanks for the advice everybody. I will call Baltimore Brass and see what they say about it. I definitely don't want another "sometimes okay" horn sitting around.

ValveSlide wrote:BBC is very trust worthy. Dave really gives honest opinions. That being said...

Dan Tuba wrote:Jim Laabs is selling the 981 copies for $1785 on eBay. I know that they don't have the best "customer service" or "quality control," however I've had fairly good experiences with Jim Laabs.

"Dan Tuba"'s advice is sound, no pun intended. If a model of Chinese tuba that you're interested in buying isn't sitting at BBC or Dillon Music in their used listing, Laabs is as good as any new seller of these. The "quality control" and "customer service" isn't any different at any other JB stencil brand. There's no reason JB would want to jerk Laabs around any more than any other seller. Laabs sells too much of their stuff...

Why pay more than you have to pay? Check it out first, buy it, save money...

I beg to differ with your comment. Please dont make blanket statements assuming that what you get from them is the same exact thing everyone else is selling as its far from the truth. Also, consider warrenty and return policy as just about every other dealer is very different from them as well.

But the way, we have upgraded every model tuba we carry with the B&S style paddle assemblies and moved away from the Miraphone style over a year ago, major difference. Improvements like this or changing the height of a leadpipe or length of a tuning slide will come from dealers who are also musicians and may never been seen by dealers who know nothing about what they sell.

ValveSlide wrote:That maker would need to be very busy keeping some interesting records with each sellers upgrades.

Upgrading one seller's line and not improving their entire production is just not in their own best interest. It would muddy their own waters and cost them money. Not a good business model by any standard.

Although, as each seller has identified an upgrade to public, it does seem as though it shows up on everyone else's stencil, too. This has been confirmed by one of the less vocal sellers with their own house brand from this maker, too...

This pretty much nails it and is, indeed, how I view things:

bloke wrote:I tend to look at things the way ValveSlide does (I think...maybe not...??).
I don't pay much attention to "service" or "warranty".
I buy stuff with an "it is what it is" attitude. The INSTANT I buy something, it is "USED". If I find something in NEW condition that IS used - with a "used" price (and I happen to want one of those things), THAT interests me.

I do like Dillon Music because of Matt and BBC because of Dave and how they each do business.

JB does makes changes and just because they make a change for one dealers doesn't mean they make it for all as they do cater to individuals as needed. We added 2 inches to the 200 model tuba 5 years ago and so far we are still the only one getting that improvement.

What really get my goat is seeing statements like your that are so not true. Without refuting a statement like your readers may actually believe what you write. Before you make blanket statements you should know what your talking about especially when it comes to how others run a business.

ValveSlide wrote:

hrender wrote:

ValveSlide wrote:That maker would need to be very busy keeping some interesting records with each sellers upgrades.

Upgrading one seller's line and not improving their entire production is just not in their own best interest. It would muddy their own waters and cost them money. Not a good business model by any standard.

OEM & contract manufacturers maintain vendor-specific builds all the time, and modern MES software is designed to support this. Yes, it adds cost, but that cost is factored into the overall cost of doing business. It's not a new thing, either. How many years did GM put out similar but not exact copies of the same vehicles for different marques?

Yes, I was an automotive engineer for 25 years, so I know what you're getting at. You make a good point. It isn't variation for marketing, this is basic function and quality improvement to which I refer. The internal warranty processes apply more here than corporate brand variation. Every owner will want linkage that doesn't bend easily, every owner will want an instrument that will play at pitch. Every owner owner will want valves that won't bind and caps that will be easy to r&r.

They really want to apply improvements to their entire production. Some sellers say they do. Some insist they don't (See above...). Why they wouldn't want to is apparently above my pay grade!

I don't sell 'em. I just fix 'em. Good or bad, I see the same "stuff" no matter who's name is stenciled on the bell with some maker's stuff. That's really my point.

However, if you look at a company like JP, they differentiate their lines. For example, the 200-series euphs or Eb tubas ARE intentionally different build quality than their 300-series instruments. To me, that's an appreciable difference in approach.

It's just my opinion that sellers should insist that they get every improvement any other sellers gets on comparable instruments (if/when they notice they are not). When a seller proclaims that they get an improvement others sellers don't get that points out, imo, the possibility that they don't get some improvement(s) other sellers may be getting with the same models they both sell.

GM doesn't vary the quality of product depending which dealer is getting the vehicle. Is that the case here? Some say it is, some say it isn't. Refuted even!

Again, it's not that simple, what one dealer calls an improvement another may not. Dealers make changes, some for the sake of just change while others like myself make changes to improve the horn. Manufacturers have their base models, dealers can adjust them to suite their customers. I am sure that there have been changes to models over the years that JB uses for all and other changes that are specific to certain dealers.

No matter what I say, you obviously have your opinion and thats fine as i am just calling you out for lack of knowledge in this area. I am sure that the stuff you have repaired with different names on them could be the very same as only a few dealers have the factory make changes.

As you have eluded to, if you want to just get a model for the lowest price then shop around and go with a dealer that supplies that. If you want something a notch above, better long term support or better customer service or even want the opportunity to return the horn and get your money back, then go with a dealer that has a good reputation in those areas. I am only posting on this because it's a little insulting to be grouped with certain dealers as our business prides itself on customer service, support and yes, great selective horns that have had the factory make changes to. Maybe one day if you ever see one of my tubas in your hands you will understand and see for yourself what I am talking about, till then, be specific on what dealers you are referring to instead of blanket statements.

To me, changing paddle assemblies, lowering leadpipes or lengthening tuning slides costs money and raises the price, something not all dealers may want.

hrender wrote:

ValveSlide wrote:That maker would need to be very busy keeping some interesting records with each sellers upgrades.

Upgrading one seller's line and not improving their entire production is just not in their own best interest. It would muddy their own waters and cost them money. Not a good business model by any standard.

Again, this is your opinion but not accurate. JB has been doing this for over 40 years and they are the largest manufacturer in the world, i think they know what they are doing.

By the way, they do keep good records and unless you understood their business model how could you say it's a bad one? Again this is your opinion and not fact. The benefit of being able to make customer specific changes is they are able to accommodate their customers needs, i think this is a good thing and no, it doesn't muddy the waters as you stated.