terms: "slot" / "articulation"

[Michael Bush]

"slot/slotting" (as it pertains to the playing characteristics of a tuba)...
My best guess is that this refers to how easily pitches are stretched (intonation-wise) on a particular instrument without losing very much resonance and/or it refers to (perhaps: the same thing...) how easy it is to "target" pitches on a tuba

I'm no authority on any of this, but I will throw into the hopper that I once owned a tuba on which I found some pitches absurdly easy to "stretch," to the point that it was hard to, as you say, "target" pitches (if by that you mean something like predicting what apperture and wind speed will give the desired pitch.) I had picked up the term "wide slots" on here and figured this was what was meant.

[thevillagetuba]

"slot/slotting" (as it pertains to the playing characteristics of a tuba)...
My best guess is that this refers to how easily pitches are stretched (intonation-wise) on a particular instrument without losing very much resonance and/or it refers to (perhaps: the same thing...) how easy it is to "target" pitches on a tuba and how likely or unlikely one is to "crack" a pitch re: how forgiving that pitch is to not-quite-the-correct frequency lip vibration sent into the instrument.

OK...How close to correct am I on "slot/slotting"...??

Yes. I refer to slotting as how easy it is to center that pitch which is also related to how easy it is to crack. Small slots can't have their pitch stretched very far without falling to the next partial where wide slots can. I have played horns that have had small slots but that slotted well, horns that had large slots that didn't slot well, and vice versa. On a lot of rotor Fs, especially the German ones (like PT10s and the like), I refer to the low C problem as the note not slotting easily and having a small slot (as I find that note to require exact air and placement and to have very little room for the pitch to be stretched).

"Articulation" is something we do with our tongues and/or our air...to begin frequencies. ...so how does a mouthpiece have "articulation"...??
- Does it ~amplify~ (in the sound of the instrument) what the tongue/air are doing to begin pitches...??, or...
- Is it, actually, the TYPE of resonance (i.e. nothing to do with the beginnings of frequencies) that a mouthpiece tends to offer...??, or...
- Is it something else entirely...??

What IS "articulation" - as far as "what a mouthpiece offers" ?

I have always used articulation of the mouthpiece to refer to how hard I have to articulate to get a clear articulation into the hall. Some mouthpieces seem to require more work to get a clean and clear front of the note than do others. The ones that have "less articulation" tend to muddy the starts of the notes so that the fronts are less pronounced and a more legato-esque articulation is what is heard regardless of how hard one is trying to articulate. Ones with "more" or "clearer" articulation provide the opposite. I find this to be more of an issue with 5/4 or 6/4 horns than with 3/4 or 4/4.

Hopefully that helps and makes sense.

[Donn]

"slot" - I've determined, has to do with the playing characteristics of an instrument.

Plus widely believed to be a function (in part) of the mouthpiece bore between the throat and backbore. Not to contradict, since the mouthpiece forms part of the tuba as a musical instrument.

[thevillagetuba]

"slot" - I've determined, has to do with the playing characteristics of an instrument.

Plus widely believed to be a function (in part) of the mouthpiece bore between the throat and backbore. Not to contradict, since the mouthpiece forms part of the tuba as a musical instrument.

Yes, that too. I knew there was something that I felt like I was forgetting.

[thevillagetuba]

OK...
If the mouthpiece lends itself to "clear articulation", then there are also tubas that help/hinder this.

ex: Back when I owned a herd of 6/4 tubas, I would play a couple of them, and then pick up a "normal" (or F) tuba, and I found myself tonguing the $h!t out of those not-6/4 tubas (well...at least, for a few seconds)...

...so, when someone asks me for a mouthpiece with "a lot of articulation", I should then ask them what size of tuba (or even make/model) they're playing...because smaller tubas (in my experience) transfer "the articulation" to the hall more easily than gigantic tubas...

I would agree with this train of thought. Again, I only have the issue with articulation and mouthpiece with the larger horns and find that I can slap just about any mouthpiece into smaller horns without as much of a change. IMHO, your mouthpieces are very good combinations for this and I often recommend them to solve this problem. I haven't really played any combination of your mouthpieces in any of my horns that gave me problems with articulation (I think the clearest on my current horn being Symphony cup with grand shank, though I tend use Symphony shank and cup together as I feel I get a fuller sound).

For me, I find that I have a problem with articulation on mouthpieces like the Pt50 and Pt88, just to name two common ones, but not with a Helleberg/Helleberg copy as the Pts tend to make my horns sound nice and big/wide but then they lose clarity. I'm sure this varies somewhat from player to player as we all have different oral cavities and play in slightly different ways.

[thevillagetuba]

Absolutely. There are many more factors into the "articulation" discussion than just the mouthpiece and the horn as everything from how far a shark goes into the receiver to rim and cup shape to backbore all combined with the horn to produce what is heard. I don't feel this is the best term to describe the desired effect or sound as its meaning is not quite descriptive of what is happening but rather what is perceived, but I can offer no better and it is what is commonly used, and that is why I believe it is often so difficult to find the perfect mouthpiece.

(On an unrelated note, I might be ordering one of those "0" shanks for my Solo as I am working with trying to get the brighter, more colorful sound I get with the "1" with the articulation--there I go--that I get with the "2".)

[tmmcas1]

When I studied with Mr. Bobo he always preached that articulation was the "fine tuning of rhythm". I can't think of clearer tubist than he.

Tom

[timothy42b]

I think of slot as the equivalent of the physics term Q. A narrow slot means that the area of the resonant frequency is very small and if you get very far from that point you don't get much reinforcement from the horn. But the plus side is when you're right in the center of the slot you get very good reinforcement, the horn speaks easily with less effort. Lipping it very far into tune is problematic, and you can chip notes if you're trying to pitch them too far out. On trombone I would prefer a narrow slot, as I can tune with the handslide. On valve instruments maybe a little wider gives you more security.

Articulation I don't know. I feel like deeper cups make for a softer articulation, but I am not a mouthpiece experimenter. Benade did say (in Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics) that it was possible to build horns that were hard to articulate but okay to play after the tone started - the initial 2 or 3 reflections from the end of the bell arrived at the wrong time and tended to disturb the lip buzz instead of support it. He said these horns were very difficult for a beginner to play at all, but experienced players could cope with them.

[swillafew]

Timothy's comment about slots sounds good to me. I think this was first related to me comparing Bach and Schilke trumpets. The story was that people were devoted to the Bach instruments for having a wider "slot". I put slot in quotes because I think another term (or terms) was popular at the time, but it meant the same thing.

Articulation I have never heard applied to a mouthpiece. It happens before the air ever gets to the mouthpiece. Unless maybe your tongue is really long.

[Worth]

Threads like this and the knowledge within are why I'm here. Thanks to all.

[Donn]

Articulation I have never heard applied to a mouthpiece.

Put this search term in google - "sharp rim articulation site:chisham.com"

[swillafew]

I did the search. Right away you see "My articulation" vs. "The articulation of (mouthpiece)".

One is right, and one is not.

It is just an unfortunate way to apply a term.

[Donn]

If the complaint is about the semantics, sure. No one thinks a mouthpiece articulates notes. But when people talk about this, the point is not far from that - the mouthpiece does help or hinder one's attempt to produce that articulation.

[swillafew]

I spoke about this with my wife, the expert saxophonist. Her observation: reed players readily speak about the articulation of the mouthpiece. She also allowed that the mouthpiece was in the mouth and on the tongue. I think that's enough of a difference to make a distinction.

[Tom]

"slot/slotting" (as it pertains to the playing characteristics of a tuba)...
My best guess is that this refers to how easily pitches are stretched (intonation-wise) on a particular instrument without losing very much resonance and/or it refers to (perhaps: the same thing...) how easy it is to "target" pitches on a tuba

I'm no authority on any of this, but I will throw into the hopper that I once owned a tuba on which I found some pitches absurdly easy to "stretch," to the point that it was hard to, as you say, "target" pitches (if by that you mean something like predicting what apperture and wind speed will give the desired pitch.) I had picked up the term "wide slots" on here and figured this was what was meant.

I agree with this and I'll use Alexander tubas as my example. I am of the opinion that Alexander tubas have "wide slots" and by that I mean that the resonance will be there almost regardless of where the player places the pitch. Play it way sharp or way flat, and chances are an Alexander tuba isn't going to fight you...it's going to resonate away on your sharp of flat pitch just as if you'd played it straight down the middle as in-tune. Some players like this, while some interpret it as making a tuba "hard" to play. Others yet would chalk the whole experience up to "pitch problems." Then there is another group of players that struggle with pitch placement but tolerate those types of tubas for their often unique sound and resonance. I think it forces more active and intense listening to oneself and that the potential is there for it to force better pitch on the player.

That doesn't mean that anyone that can't/won't play or doesn't like an Alexander tuba has terrible pitch, it just means they prefer to not have to actively manage that aspect of their playing quite so intensely and would rather play an instrument that doesn't have to be managed like that. Or maybe they prefer a different sort of sound.

Continuing for a moment on my Alexander tuba tangent...I am of the opinion that most Alexanders are not actually as bad as they're made out to be - they are just so different from what most players are familiar that they don't understand what that kind of tuba "needs" - not entirely unlike what we read here all the time about a different blow being needed for F tubas, low range in particular.

All of that said, the pitch of some tubas does just plain suck. Wide slots or no, sometimes the lengths of bugle or valve circuits just isn't right. Maybe the tapers are off. Or the leadpipe is wrong. Buzz the pitch accurately, use any number of regular and alternate fingerings and it just doesn't work - those are tubas with pitch problems. But sometimes, maybe, it's just because that particular tuba's design is of the "wide slot" variety which is less forgiving of player pitch input and maybe not well suited to that player's approach. And, well, some tuba players just have a terrible sense of pitch

[windshieldbug]

...And, well, some tuba players just have a terrible sense of pitch

[williamp]

I find this thread interesting, because it again shows me that often when you think others are understanding what you're saying, there's a good chance they're coming away with a different interpretation than what you intended. I've always used (probably incorrectly) the term "slotted" to mean that a horn plays in tune intrinsically, with minimal slide pulling or distortion of your most comfortable embouchure. It's one of the things that I most consider when picking out a tuba. The B&S GR55, the Willson Eb 3400, and even the King 2341 all seemed to be in this category of what I considered to be "well-slotted" horns. I have played on numerous other horns that have had nice, resonant sounds, but when I play through scales, I find pitches throughout not centered without manipulation. Those were horns that I considered "less-slotted." Like I said, interesting post.

[timothy42b]

If I'm understanding the term correctly, it's the same definition...

"WELL-slotted" would mean "centers of most pitches are in tune"
"WIDE-slotted" would mean "pitches can be bent very far - probably either way - without much change in resonance"

The two could (??) apply to the same instrument.

Wide slotted could mean you can easily lip a note into tune without pulling slides. If it's well slotted, you wouldn't have to lip much, or pull slides.

It seems to me that wide slotted also must mean less responsive - you have to work harder.

Thinking out loud, a couple of ideas.

In tune to what? Are we assuming equal temperament? There are times when we are playing in chordal or melodic temperament, might need to adjust more for either of those depending on the horn design.

Any given fingering has a range of possible notes above it - frequencies at which the horn responds. This is not the same set of frequencies above any given note you are playing. Now, I don't really know, but it seems logical that notes which are more responsive (and narrower slotted) are that way because there is reinforcement from more than just the fundamental frequency for that note. Or, the individual spots may have wider slots. This could affect the way you color a note - playing habitually above or below pitch center excites different overtones, depending on what the horn reinforces.

[timothy42b]

In tune to what? Are we assuming equal temperament? There are times when we are playing in chordal or melodic temperament, might need to adjust more for either of those depending on the horn design.

I seriously doubt that you really want to enter into a discussion along these lines with me.

The TNFJ, though, is ready-and-waiting.

Yeah - what was I thinking??????????? Sorry!