The bulk of the musical talk
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Poll - ONLY, please, for those who have played several of each of these:
- Conn 52J/54J/56J
- Kanstul 90-S
- Eastman EBC632
- King BBb-to-CC cut-downs with various bells
Over three hours without a reply. That must mean that with this, once again, the shark has been jumped and the board has been trumped.
Free to tuba: good home
12 poll responses (plus your post) in 11 hours - even with the given caption
In the words of the football player, Marshawn Lynch: "I'm just here so I don't get fined."
It is impossible for one with their finite mind to comprehend the incredible miracles, mercies, and powers of an infinite God. It is good to know He's there and loves us, though.
Miraphone 1291 CC
1968 Besson New Standard Eb
I voted yes, although "obsolete" seems a little strong.
- CB50/G-50 - good luck finding one in decent cosmetic shape
- Conn 52J/54J/56J - obsolete from serial number 1
- Kanstul 90-S - I hear you can by parts for these at Napa
- Eastman EBC632
- King BBb-to-CC cut-downs with various bells - have to admit only playing one of these in the past. Not very many around.
I'm just glad I don't have a Conn 56J I'm trying to sell.
I didn't say anything other than to ~ask~ whether the statement is true or false.
Conn screwed up when they did not follow Matt's prototypes, changing parts to a dollar-cost-averaging accountants run the show.
Sam Gnagny makes great instruments. If I was told to play a 11/16" - 17.5mm CC instrument, I would be saving my money for one of his conversions.
But the poll did not indicate all the other instruments that players may have played in comparison to the better known 11/16 bore instruments.
The poll also did not indicate the "effective bore," or which of these instruments had a short leadpipe, so that they were in effect actually similar in response characteristics to instruments, compared to the typical German-style rotor instrument, where the leadpipe is much longer, and therefore if measured at the same point from the receiver as where the short lead pipe typical 11/16 instruments enters the valve block, may very well be similar to the inside diameter of the lead pipe of the longer lead pipe tubas at that point. I believe that upon being able to run scopes and calipers, there will be more similarity than differences.
So - my view - and everyone else's mileage will vary - this thread is a non-question. Effective bore comparing tubas must be measured from a common point so-many-inches from the receiver, which may or may not include transition through the valve block, or to say it another way: what is the internal diameter of the tubing at "X" number of inches from the receiver.
Only when that particular specification is determined, even with different leadpipes for essentially the same tuba, as in the Miraphone 1291/1292, can the topic of this thread even begin to be a topic of intelligent discussion.
"Bessophone" w/ 2-piece Imperial Blokepiece,
Lexan 32.6 Modified Helleberg rim & modified .080 extender
Wessex BR115 w/ Wick Ultra SMB6
King Super 20 trumpet w/ Bach 3C/76
Fanned fret bass and electric guitars
"squatty wide-pancake-bell CC tubas with 11/16" bore valvesets that all - more or less - were inspired by King"
Kanstul model 90 CC tubas are generally quite good, if detailed out a bit, mostly in the 5th rotor. Their major business is making trumpets, trombones and marching brass, so they don't make many tubas. Conn-Selmer put out CC tubas, and decisions were dictated by trying to keep the cost of manufacture as low as possible, and that eventually did not produce tubas of sufficient quality to make them commercially viable. Getzen is a successful trumpet/trombone maker that ultimately decided that they were making less money while pulling people off of the Edwards trombone production to assemble a few tubas, and decided to quite trying to make tubas. There has not been enough demand at a sufficient pricepoint for an American company to mass-produce CC tubas. Due to differences in the Chinese economy, they have been able to fill a demand in the US at an acceptable pricepoint.
Last edited by Lee Stofer on Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Lee A. Stofer, Jr.
I do not think that an 11/16" bore CC tuba with an approx. 20" bell, 31 1/2" tall body, four pistons and a 5th rotor is obsolete, not if it is built well-enough. That is why I'm building them now, with the basis of my parts being the remaining Getzen CB-50/G-50 parts that Getzen sold me some three years ago. The first one has been sold, and serial number 0002 is about to appear on my website. My aim was to build a top-shelf, no-expense-spared version of a York 33-inspired tuba, compact and easy-to-handle, that performs like no other tuba out there. I feel that I have succeeded with this instrument, and serial numbers 0003 and 0004 are in process now. I have assembled a couple of Franken-tubas in the past, but to me they fell short in some way, either mechanically or cosmetically, or both. With my Stofer CC tuba, after 3 years of R & D I have a horn that I am quite happy with. It is not cheap, and will have no effect whatsoever upon the sales volume of the Eastman tubas, but it is also a tuba that plays like no other that I have ever played. In cooperation with Martin Wilk, serial number 0002 has the optional MAW pistons, and is the first new tuba to ever be offered for sale with MAW pistons as original equipment. The result is a tuba unlike anything else that you have ever played. And, for the few that want old-style craftsmanship and service, these instruments are available with custom bell engraving, other modifications as requested, and a choice of finishes.
Lee A. Stofer, Jr.
Where are you positioning the 5th rotors, Lee ?
I would say the CB-50, but with an original York bell. I bought my Getzen because I loved my teacher's so much. With the factory bell, I will admit that the sound leaves a bit to be desired. The sound and intonation is very even, though. WITH the York bell, the sound opens up to what it should be. When I swapped out the bells, my teacher/repair tech noticed a substantial difference in sound.
TL;DR With an old York bell, the Getzen is a superb horn.
Cerveny CCB 601
Conn Grand Orchestral
Sherman Tenor Orenophone
So far, my horns have a 5th rotor in the leadpipe. The first of my horns is a 4-valve instrument, finished to order for it's owner. I also wanted to see if the 5th-rotor-in-the-leadpipe setup was a bad idea. Once I was satisfied that the 4-valve instrument was really right, I built ser. # 0002 with the standard Getzen-type configuration that they borrowed from Boehm & Meinl. Between building #1 and #2, I repaired and restored several Getzens for customers, and found that they all had a rigged-up leadpipe setup. The leadpipes used on these instruments were not sufficiently conical in taper, and were too small to fit the 5th rotor bore, so they used questionable tricks to make them work. I annealed several pipes, and using a sufficiently-conical mandrel, I patiently worked the leadpipes until they would mate perfectly, either to the 1st valve on the 4-valve horn or the 5th rotor on the 5-v. model, instead of having an almost instantaneous drop-off of nearly 70 thousandths in diameter. The results are much better intonation in all ranges and a much fuller low register. We have also been experimenting with a Willson approx. .800"bore 5th rotor after the main tuning slide, but that design, while quite playable, is not quite ready yet. I'm thinking that the 5th rotor in the leadpipe, in conjunction with a correctly-done leadpipe, has several advantages and very little in drawbacks. I like it a lot as a player, and can deal with it as a repair tech, as the 5th rotor is a little difficult to service.
Concerning the bell, the Getzen bells vary a bit. The bells were made by Meinl-Weston, and some of the G-50's had rather sturdy, thick bells. After complaints from some about the weight and dark sound, some of the bells were belt-sanded and buffed extra to lighten them up and give the G-50's more zing, more like a York bell. An original York bell would work very well on one of these Getzens, but there are two other remedies that will help them more. There should be a brace between 2nd and 3rd valve slide tubes on top. If you have one of these horns and it has not been refitted, you need to have your local tech add a brace there. The smaller, one-piece braces on these horns are Getzen trumpet braces, so your tech can easily get one and install it. This will go a long way in making the response of your instrument more consistent throughout. The other re-fit is to have the leadpipe re-done to the correct taper and re-fit to the 5th rotor. The result will be a horn that's so much fun to play that you'll not want to put it down.
Lee A. Stofer, Jr.
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