Jazz Sousa Tips

[ramanathantuba]

I've been playing in a school brass band for a little while now (New Orleans style, not British style, sorry mates) and I've just about gotten the hang of the very basics of playing dixieland sousaphone, as we currently have a lot of trad stuff in our rep. My director himself has a very good band that he modeled after the New Orleans style brass band, and he mentioned that we would start doing some more modern tunes and arrangements, including the funky kinda things you can expect out of Dirty Dozen or Rebirth or any other of the greats from down south.

I guess that brings me to my question: Generally, what are some tips to make an improvised bass line more interesting for this kind of music?

To clarify, I have a general hold on the mechanics of how to actually play, but am rather curious about additional stylistic elements. Thanks a bunch guys, I'd appreciate any advice from players experienced in this style.

[iiipopes]

I've been playing in a school brass band for a little while now (New Orleans style, not British style, sorry mates) and I've just about gotten the hang of the very basics of playing dixieland sousaphone, as we currently have a lot of trad stuff in our rep. My director himself has a very good band that he modeled after the New Orleans style brass band, and he mentioned that we would start doing some more modern tunes and arrangements, including the funky kinda things you can expect out of Dirty Dozen or Rebirth or any other of the greats from down south.

I guess that brings me to my question: Generally, what are some tips to make an improvised bass line more interesting for this kind of music?

To clarify, I have a general hold on the mechanics of how to actually play, but am rather curious about additional stylistic elements. Thanks a bunch guys, I'd appreciate any advice from players experienced in this style.

MUSIC THEORY! LEARN YOUR MUSIC THEORY! I was where you were on a lesser level at your age, including playing bass guitar in jazz band in the '70's from everything from note-for-note charts to hash marks chord charts. You must learn how chords relate, how basic song forms, including blues, ballads, etc., are constructed, and most importantly, how to construct the transitions from chord to chord and section to section in the particular song or chart in the proper style so you can provide the proper foundation and transition points for the rest of the band.

I hate to say this, but I am going to be blunt: if you want to play solos, choose another instrument. If you want to provide the best foundation possible so that at the end of the gig or concert, the crowd says that is the best group I have ever heard, learn theory, form and analysis, voice leading, and style for each genre you play so that you provide the best foundation possible to help the rest of the band sound the best they can. That is what I have done for over forty years, and I am finally starting to get a clue to where folks are starting to like what I play.

For example: if you are playing jazz, are you playing (over simplified, but to show the point) a trad style, Dixieland, swing style, bebop style, fusion style, cool jazz, funk, eclectic mix, etc.?
If you are playing a Latin chart, is it bossa, rhumba, samba, tango, salsa, or some other fusion? They all have subtle differences in where you play the strong beats, off beats, which notes of the chords, and transitions from chord to chord and section to section in the particular piece.

Learn the different styles, forms, and structures. For example, in a blues, you may play a I-V for the first four measures, or you may play an arpeggio in the first few measures, or you may play a walking pattern, depending on which sub-genre of blues you are playing, in prepration to either playing a solid note or an ascending scale motive from the I going to the IV chord. On the various Latin styles, the I is usually on the beat, but the V may be on beat 3, or it may be on an upbeat, depending on which variation of which style you are playing. Then when someone does take out on a solo, you have to give a solid underpinning so there is no ambiguity as to where the beat and chord changes are with the drummer so the soloist doesn't have a train wreck.

That is just the most oversimplified way I can say it and not consume too much bandwith. Stay in dialogue with your director so as each chart is rehearsed, you can ask for pointers to coordinate your playing to what I have explained.

It is so much fun. That is why I am still doing it after more than forty years since I picked up a souzy as a 15-year-old freshman in high school to play in marching band. Hang in there, as this is a lifetime hobby for some, avocation for others, and even the primary vocation for a few. I encourage you to keep trying different things to find your particular niche in tuba/souzy playing.

[kontrabass]

the older I get, the less interesting my bass lines are. funny.
playing bass is all about being steady and solid so the melodic instruments can bob and weave around you.
if you can play one and five of every chord, in perfect time with a huge round sound and locked in with the drummer, you can play in any brass band in new orleans. it's literally as simple as that.

Listen to these records and you'll hear everyone's stylistic tricks. little walking passing notes, the occasional chromatic note, Motown-y inflections - those are all cool. but what's really important is that you find a simple repetitive groove that matches what the drummer's playing, and hold on tight!

[jbaylies]

Listen to the pros play the tunes you're playing, and transcribe the bass lines. Then memorize those bass lines, and you'll have a good foundation to improvise on.

[PaulTkachenko]

You might want to try a bit of string bass as this will inform your playing quite a bit.

[TheGoyWonder]

just use not-gross tone and you're already better than most sousaphone players.
There are times for cool busy bass lines but most of the time less is more. The space makes the funk.

well here's one tip...if arpeggios are a bit square play around with I-V-9th leaps instead.

[Steve Oberheu]

The most important thing in making any bass line more interesting (improvised or not) is in the groove. The second most important thing is in the groove. I'll give you a chance to guess what the 3rd most important thing is!

The notes you play are not as important as the feel, the groove that you play with. The job of the bass voice (sousaphone in this case) in a band is to "just make the music feel good." If you're walking - nail the walking feel. If you're rocking - nail the rocking feel. If you're playing soft sustained notes, don't just play them...shape them! Try to get your head and soul inside the song and the notes will kind of follow. Keep the song, the music, first! The more you listen to really good musicians play (Dirty Dozen, Rebirth, New Orleans Nightcrawlers, New Birth) the more you will develop and refine a sense for what excellent feel is.

Give yourself freedom to experiment with bass lines. Here's an exercise I've done that produced decent results for me. Pick a song to play along with; any song, any genre. Start by playing root notes only to get a sense of where the song is going (if you already know, skip to the next step). Next, expand your version of playing along. Don't necessarily play the bass part of the song - branch off and play your own thing that fits the structure of the song. Make up a new part to fit into the song! Try playing "wrong" notes on purpose. Sing/scat/gently hum a bass line with your voice that sounds interesting to you - then re-create it on the horn. If you're trying to learn how to walk a bass line; take a song that doesn't have a walking bass line and put one in.

Once all that's been done, then listen closely and make sure you're locking tight with the drummer.

Enjoy!!

[David Richoux]

Since most of the Hot Brass band's arrangements usually start with a Sousaphone riff, be well rehearsed in knowing your starting note(s) as you will be setting the key, tempo, and reminding the rest of the band what song you are doing! Most NOLA bands don't use any written arrangements and play it by ear - if you start off on the wrong root the rest of the band may be able to play it anyway, but they won't be happy about it. In the heat of a public performance it is not good to "start over"
I play in one band as a semi-regular substitute, so I always make sure to check with the lead trumpet or bone player to confirm what key the band has been doing a song in lately (they do change over time.)
Your role is vital in this style of music, so be strong and confident, but lock in with the Bass Drum and the Snare to keep the beat going right - never drag unless it is a dirge!

[David Richoux]

I just heard an interesting tip on bass playing - Paul Shaffer was interviewed by Marc Maron on his WTF podcast - Paul was talking about the times he played with Miles Davis - when he went to the root chord Davis told him to NEVER actually play the root! Play around it, suggest it, make people think you are going to play it, but don't go to it.
This may be a bit difficult for NOLA Hot Brass, but depending on your skill level it might be fun to try sometimes on some tunes.

[pecktime]

Isn't Paul Shaffer a pianist? Most jazz piano voicings omit the root note of the chord BECAUSE the bass player is playing it!

There are times when the harmony is well established and you can avoid the root note for a SHORT while (eg modal tunes where you may have many bars of one chord).

But to avoid the root note in a NOLA brass band because you read on the internet that a guy said that a pianist said that Miles Davis told him not to? Yeah see how long you last in that band!

[David Richoux]

Isn't Paul Shaffer a pianist? Most jazz piano voicings omit the root note of the chord BECAUSE the bass player is playing it!

He said he was playing bass guitar for that particular set - he played guitars before he switched to keyboards and switched back and forth as needed. Also re-read my 2nd paragraph!

[ramanathantuba]

Thanks guys, all of this helps. To clarify, I do know how to play in the dixieland style (i.e. a lot of two-step on the roots and fifths) and general theory. Coincidentally, to those who suggested it, I do double on upright bass and trombone for similar ensembles; I think this does impact my style. All of the advice is really quite helpful--thanks, again.

[Bill Troiano]

My thoughts exactly, Joe. Well, close to exactly. Exactly Like You!