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overtone - The harmonic of the lowest frequency is called the fundamental, and because it is louder than the others it determines the pitch of the composite tone. The frequencies of the other harmonics are exact multiples of the frequency of the fundamental, therefore if the frequency of the fundamental is n, the other harmonics have frequencies of 2n, 3n, and so on. The harmonics that we hear above the fundamental are called overtones, and they are related as a multiple of the fundamental.

false tone - False tone is more of a slang word, but means playing a note with a shorter tubing than required. Sometime, try playing a low Eb 1 and 4 (comp. euphonium fingering), and then try to play the same note with only 1st valve. This will create a false tone, and if you ask me - one that does not sound very good.

Hope this helps.

ufoneum wrote:he frequencies of the other harmonics are exact multiples of the frequency of the fundamental, therefore if the frequency of the fundamental is n, the other harmonics have frequencies of 2n, 3n, and so on. The harmonics that we hear above the fundamental are called overtones, and they are related as a multiple of the fundamental.

Minor nit, but the word you were looking for is integer.

1.25n is an exact multiple after all. as is 3.141597n.

overtones are all integer multiples.

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ufoneum wrote:false tone - False tone is more of a slang word, but means playing a note with a shorter tubing than required. Sometime, try playing a low Eb 1 and 4 (comp. euphonium fingering), and then try to play the same note with only 1st valve. This will create a false tone, and if you ask me - one that does not sound very good.

The false tone is the (approximately) Eb you'd get playing with no valves depressed. Tubas seem to be more amenable to this treatment than euphoniums, BTW.

ufoneum wrote:I don't mean to be a @@@@@, but this is on page 10 of the Harvard Dictionary of Music.

Interesting. Ever definition I've seen before used integer to describe harmonics.

Perhas a different definition of exact?

I though for sure 1.25 and PI were also exact numbers, but not in the harmonic series.

But, hey, I diodn't go to Harvard so what do I know.

ThomasDodd wrote:Minor nit, but the word you were looking for is integer.

1.25n is an exact multiple after all. as is 3.141597n.

overtones are all integer multiples.

Since you are into nits, how about that pi (your second number) is not an exact number?

Rick "thinking you need another 40 or 50 decimal places to get anywhere near exact" Denney

ufoneum wrote:I don't mean to be a @@@@@, but this is on page 10 of the Harvard Dictionary of Music. I swear, you try and help someone out... geez...

In this case, Harvard is wrong, and Thomas is right (except for his example of a numerical representation of the inexact pi). Not your fault, of course, but still the case. Harmonic overtones are integer multiples of the fundamental frequency. And mathemeticians will all agree that an exact number is one that cannot be improved by adding decimal places to its representation.

Combined, harmonic overtones produce the apparent fundamental, which itself might be quite weak in the mix.

We need to make a distinction between "harmonic" overtones and just "overtones". The former are the integer multiples of the fundamental, but any sound can have enharmonic overtones as well. They create noise in the sound. In fact, noise is a random range of frequencies that are enharmonic. A poor sound often has enharmonic overtones in it. Open you water key while you play, and you'll hear what that sounds like.

Rick "who wishes his sound only had harmonic overtones" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:

ThomasDodd wrote:Minor nit, but the word you were looking for is integer.

1.25n is an exact multiple after all. as is 3.141597n.

overtones are all integer multiples.

Since you are into nits, how about that pi (your second number) is not an exact number?

Rick "thinking you need another 40 or 50 decimal places to get anywhere near exact" Denney

Ok, OK. pi is an exact number, but we can not represent it except as a greek letter. What's the calculation up to now, 1billion digits or so? How's this for a short approximation?

Out siid of that, 3.141597 is an exact number, just not exactly pi

So, in all of this arguing, did we answer this guys question? That is the most important part here... Is it clear? I think I am confused now... hmm....

ufoneum wrote:So, in all of this arguing, did we answer this guys question? That is the most important part here... Is it clear? I think I am confused now... hmm....

I think so. If he's still confused, he'll let us know.

ufoneum wrote:So, in all of this arguing, did we answer this guys question? That is the most important part here... Is it clear? I think I am confused now... hmm....

Is this arguing?

Yes, I think we answered his question. Sound is made up of a combination of frequencies, each contributing to the tone color. The fundamental has a series of harmonic and enharmonic overtones. The harmonic overtones are integer multiples of the fundamental frequency (by definition), and the enharmonic overtones are at other frequencies.

A false tone is an apparent pitch produced that does not fit with the usual model of the tube as a closed-end organ pipe. It does, however, fit with the acoustics of a conical pipe, which is different in most important ways from an straight pipe. Explaining that, however, is a much bigger task. In practice, play a lot Bb on a BBb tuba, and relax your embouchure to let the pitch sink. Don't push the buttons. The pitch will drop, and if you let it drop enough, it will jump to a stable pitch in the vicinity of a low Eb (below the 4th-ledger-line F). That's a so-called false tone.

Rick "who hopes our new posters toughen up a bit before we have a real argument, heh, heh" Denney

Still one of the best 10-minute online courses on brass instrument acoustics, IMHO:

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/brassacoustics.html