Mouthpiece Size Question

[thevillagetuba]

I have asthma and can speak from experience that the throat/backbore, for me, is what can cause that. Asthma is different with each person and, generally, I find it best to understand how to manage air with those I work with so that the solution can be player, and not equipment, specific (I can play fairly large equipment and mouthpiece backbores just as easily as smaller ones).

[Donn]

I have asthma and can speak from experience that the throat/backbore, for me, is what can cause that.
...
(I can play fairly large equipment and mouthpiece backbores just as easily as smaller ones).

I may not be thinking hard enough about what exactly you mean here, but I'm getting a kind of mixed message.

Meaning, which of those dimensions on the mouthpiece will affect getting dizzy or out of breathe the fastest working with larger pieces.

The player dimension, am I right? A.K.A., technique. I have mouthpieces that are more demanding, in that respect, but as best I can tell, it isn't reducible to a dimension value. A Conn 7B for example has a larger throat than a Conn 120, but it doesn't (to me) seem to need noticeably more air. But my Marcinkiewicz H series mouthpieces do, at the same stated throat width, or at least they take more work to master; probably something in the backbore. I guess the best bet is to start with the mouthpieces everyone copies and everyone plays - they're widely used, because they work for most people.

[thevillagetuba]

I have asthma and can speak from experience that the throat/backbore, for me, is what can cause that.
...
(I can play fairly large equipment and mouthpiece backbores just as easily as smaller ones).

I may not be thinking hard enough about what exactly you mean here, but I'm getting a kind of mixed message.

I wasn't clear, my apologies. Smaller backbore/throat will help with this, in my experience.

However, I use(d) these only as a way to establish better understand of how to manage one's air, regardless of the present of any limiting factors such as asthma, so that they no longer have to be cautious with what equipment they use as that equipment will not always lend the sound they are trying to achieve. I have asthma and with careful attention to my own capacity and the management of my air have found that I can actually play on some large equipment and mouthpieces if I want the sound that those provide.

Hopefully that makes my point clearer.

[Donn]

Sure, I'm with you to some extent - I have actually never played either of those mouthpieces, but I don't doubt that I'd notice a difference myself. My example was the Marcinkiewicz H series vs. a Conn 7B, but yours is better - while the Bach 18 is conventionally considered a moderate size easily played mouthpiece, the throat bore dimension on dwerden's table is 8.84 mm, where the Loud 10 is 8.25 mm. I do think it's something in there, but if they know what it is, they aren't telling.

That's why I'm saying, the best we can do is start with the mouthpieces everyone starts with, like that 18. It's why they're popular, they work for a lot of people.

[barry grrr-ero]

I have had sarcoidosis, and still can get asthma from time to time. Tuba playing usually doesn't induce it for me. If anything, tuba playing seems to help. But what I CAN tell you is this . . .

For my lung capacity (diminished by the sarcoid), my Neptune is an 'air hog' with any mouthpiece with a relatively big throat. I've now dialed down the throat size with the Stofer Gieb, and I'm getting much better results. The dynamic range is slightly less, but low notes are - if anything - even fatter using the Stofer (a more accurate copy of Fred Geib's conn m.p.). I'm also get plenty of core and fundamental to the tone. Dialing down has not in any way diminished the effects of the Neptune. In fact, the scale is improved, which always helps with projection (i.e. playing in tune). Also important: it's easier to play softly now, and I can sustain long notes for a longer period w/o another breathe. In short, it's more musical. I will gladly trade off 10% or 15% of dynamic range to improve all those other facets.

So yes, I think a smaller throat size might help your situation. You'll have to experiment to find out.

[thevillagetuba]

I have asthma and with careful attention to my own capacity and the management of my air have found that I can actually play on some large equipment and mouthpieces if I want the sound that those provide.

Sure, but let's say you're playing a long passage all written below low BBb under the staff at double Fortissimo (like anything from Star Wars) with large and asthma provoking equipment..I'd assume you can't play to your personal limit at Mezzo Forte and still be playing it correctly. I am curious what you mean by careful attention to your own capacity and what happens when you overdo it? But regarding equipment, so you think it's the throat bore that most affects the dizzy/asthma symptoms the most? Would you say perhaps no mouthpiece with over an 8.20mm throat bore be sufficient to keep you in your safe zone? I would guess it's more the Cup Diameter width since you are putting more "lip" into the bowl enabling you to actually play big low passages on point at the correct volume (which in this case would make the room spin in a bad way).

I practice playing loud low passages regularly and have learned how--all I am saying with this (not trying to distract from the equipment) is that asthma doesn't have to cause that effect when playing loud/low.

My regular equipment has 32.3mm rims. My rims go as low as 32.0mm and as high as 33.5mm. I do not notice a difference in my playing capacity or how my asthma responds as I switch betweeN these rim sizes.

My regular equipment has throats/backbores of 8.2mm. I have some as low as 8.0mm and some as high as 8.5mm. As I go higher in size I find I have to pay more attention to my capacity to not "gas out" and have my asthma become a problem. However, to my point about learning how to play with asthma, I was using a different piece that had a 8.2mm backbore that I would "gas out" on as I was always trying to play with more air and produce a bigger sound.

Many factors will interact with a player's asthma, but choosing a smaller backbore (I recommend 8.0-8.2mm) tends to remedy or reduce that in myself and those I work with.

[Donn]

So yes, I think a smaller throat size might help your situation. You'll have to experiment to find out.

My regular equipment has throats/backbores of 8.2mm. I have some as low as 8.0mm and some as high as 8.5mm. As I go higher in size I find I have to pay more attention to my capacity to not "gas out" and have my asthma become a problem.

Just curious - lowbrassmaniac mentioned the Bach 18 - do you who have studied this matter have any experience with that, and could say anything about its air hog potential? Honestly, I'm looking at the very large reported throat diameter and wondering if it's so popular a mouthpiece because A) hardly any tuba player has serious issues with air supply, or B) while the issue does have something to do with the throat design, published throat diameter isn't the real culprit [*]. I haven't played one, as I prefer the Conn style, but like I mentioned before, the Conn 7B reports a much larger throat than the Conn 120 but doesn't seem notably more demanding on air.

I guess we should also consider the possibility that the most efficient mouthpiece depends on the tuba - maybe my Conn 7B would be a terrible match with a Neptune, but the Geib would likewise be no help with my Holton?

[* Edit] possibility C) Bach 18 throat size might be mis-reported in David Werden's mouthpiece chart. From the Bach manual:



The format of that throat size table is a little hard to read - I take the same 8.84 interpretation as Werden, and 8.33 is for the mouthpieces not listed, like 25, but another source shows 8.33 for the 18.