Budget Eb/F Tubas

[Nathan_Ouedraogo]

I was wondering if there are any budget horns out there (1-3k CAD) new or used. Any suggestions? I'm looking at the Amati F tuba and a Hawkes and Sons 4v F Tuba (cut from Eb). Thanks.

[imperialbari]

As I remeber the Vaghan Williams concerto it also has a prominent low E, which would be very hard to get on a 4 valve non-compensating Eb tuba.Not even eaasy on a 4 valve compensating Eb tuba without. some sort of trigger on the main tuning slide or on the 3rd slide.

Klaus

[The Big Ben]

I was wondering if there are any budget horns out there (1-3k CAD) new or used. Any suggestions? I'm looking at the Amati F tuba and a Hawkes and Sons 4v F Tuba (cut from Eb). Thanks.

I would avoid an F tuba cut from an Eb. "Cutting" per se, has mixed results. The skill of the tech and what the horn was like before surgery make a big difference. Chances are that it played better as an Eb. Or, this one might play fine. There are many different "grades" of Amati. Some are beginner horns which don't play very well and others are quite good. If it has four valves, it might be one that is quite good.

The "American" Eb has been around a long time. There are a lot of them out there. Even if you don't know Eb/F fingerings and can't play off music with it, you can tell if a candidate has a good scale and tone by playing some scales and listen to what it sounds like. (You can pick out different scales by ear even if you can't finger them reading off a page.) Watching a tuner as you play would be a good idea. If you can get it to play a scale which is reasonably in tune with a decent tone, it might be worth considering. Looking for a four valve horn would probably be best. Three valve Eb horns kind of run out of gas at the C or Bb below the bass clef staff unless they have good 'false tones" and you know how to utilize them. A four valve instrument could cover most all of the notes you might encounter.

If you are not looking to take orchestral auditions, some things won't matter. If you don't see yourself as having to play the low E in the Vaughn Williams, you probably don't have to worry about it. If you are looking for something smaller to play in a quar/quintet or a brass band, there may be many instruments you can afford which would fit the bill.

[imperialbari]

About Amati tubas I tend to disagree at least partially with Big Ben.

With Amati’s rotary tubas the cheap ones and the more expensive ones have the same acoustical designs within a model series. The cheaper ones have fewer valves, and they often have brass for moving parts where the more expensive ones have nickel silver. The cheaper ones also may be without a garland/Kranz for the bell flare. Some of the cheaper Amati low brasses actually play very well, only they are not built to last.

Klaus

[thevillagetuba]

I would avoid both of the horns you are looking at for the reasons already mentioned...

The Wessex Berg is without a doubt, IMHO, the best "budget" F on the market, and it is right in your price range new. This horn plays really well in all registers and has a great even scale. I had the opportunity to play one at the Wessex shop in Michigan expecting it to be a really good player and it surpassed my expectations. Is it a Firebird or Bel Canto or PT10 or some other expensive F tuba? No. But, it is a seriously great player and I doubt anyone would be unhappy with it for what it costs compared to those others.

The Wessex Strauss is another good horn. Close to the B&S F tubas that it is modeled after. The low D, Db, C, B on these (at least the ones that I played) were not as easy as they were on the Berg (which had no issues/difficulties at all), but are easily manageable with some practice--it was not so bad as to cause them to be unplayable, but you have to know what to do. The same goes for the MackBrass TU450 as I could not tell any difference between the two when I had them side by side--if there are differences, then they were so minute that I could not tell much a difference between them in either play or construction.

The BMB F tubas are good options, as well, but a little more expensive. I prefer those with the 16" bell more than the 18" bell as the larger tends to sound too much like a C tuba to my ears--I see the new ones are listed as having a 17" bell and am not aware of how those compare as I have not played one. I am not as huge of a fan of these horns because of the 5th valve linkage and the fact that it is a dependent valve, which lowers the options available for alternate fingerings in awkward passages. The couple that I have played didn't have any notable intonation quirks that one wouldn't expect of an F tuba and had good valve action with smooth pistons. This would be a good option if you wanted to spend the money, but their current prices don't put them too far from where one might find a used Yamaha 621, MW 45SLZ/SLP/etc., or other F tuba on the used market which would make me question buying one new or saving up a little more to get one of those.

My best recommendation would be to play them all, or as many as possible, and see what you like. If you are buying blind, I would grab a Berg.

[The Big Ben]

About Amati tubas I tend to disagree at least partially with Big Ben.

With Amati’s rotary tubas the cheap ones and the more expensive ones have the same acoustical designs within a model series. The cheaper ones have fewer valves, and they often have brass for moving parts where the more expensive ones have nickel silver. The cheaper ones also may be without a garland/Kranz for the bell flare. Some of the cheaper Amati low brasses actually play very well, only they are not built to last.

I have a Amati piston Eb 3v which is in the "cheap beginner class". It looks to be made with many of the same parts as the BBb Baby, CC and F horns, all 3v but with pipes longer or shorter. I didn't pay much and it doesn't provide much. That's OK. I still like playing it within its boundaries. I have used it to play BC baritone and euphonium parts with some success.

[imperialbari]

OK, at least while Amati was Czech owned they had no original tradition of making piston tubas at a professional level. What I wrote was about their rotary instruments made by Cerveny and engraved Cerveny, when one of the better versions numbered 6XX or 7XX. There they had a tradition back to the first Cerveny and his original tuba designs.

Klaus

[Phil Dawson]

The Yamaha YEB321S is a very good E Flat horn that can usually be found in the $2000 - $2500 range. Pat Sheridan told me that he won his Marine Band Soloist position using one. Good luck, Phil

[Timmm]

If you can find one (there have been a lot of them up recently) try a Yamaha YEB321 (or 381). The low range is VERY easy to navigate, and you'll really only have one note missing. Depending on your playing needs, you might not ever need to play that note anyways.
I've only played one Eb tuba that I like better than my 321 and it costs about $8000 more than what the 321 cost. Not exactly worth it.

I haven't had much luck with Wessex, but their Eb tubas are right at the top of your budget range. The Eastman Eb is a nice horn, but I think it is out of your budget.

[bisontuba]

If you just want to learn F tuba, how about $195 3& shipping for a 3 rotor F at BBC?

A used Anton Huller 3 rotary valve F tuba in raw brass. While it is not currently in top playing condition, this is a unique instrument that is sure to catch attention. Used, no case. $195

[Donn]

OK, at least while Amati was Czech owned they had no original tradition of making piston tubas at a professional level. What I wrote was about their rotary instruments made by Cerveny and engraved Cerveny

Or engraved whatever, a rotary Amati is one thing and the piston family is another. It's always a good idea to include some specific information. They do make a piston F - probably not with Vaughan WIlliams in mind exactly, though

[imperialbari]

In German/Czech military style bands there is a slightly different function of the high tuba, or at least a different reason for what it does.

Traditional German trombone slides were plain horrible for any purpose but bodybuilding. Their bass trombones were worse than their tenor trombones.

When you hear a Bristish military band approaching, you may sense the tubas, but the bassline that smacks into your ears comes from the bass trombone. YouTube has good samples especially with the 5 Household Guards (Grenadier, Coldstream, Scotch, Irish, and Welsh) plus from the Marine bands, especially the large ones conglomerated from two or more bands.

That function is with the F tubas in the German/Czech bands. A less distinct sound than the British bassbones, but very much there. They don’t go very low, as the BBb basses rarely go below a low G, and the F tubas play the octave. Hence the odd occurence of 3 valve non-compensated F tubas, which in my book are next to useless beyond being first tubas for very young students.

Klaus

[The Big Ben]

OK, at least while Amati was Czech owned they had no original tradition of making piston tubas at a professional level. What I wrote was about their rotary instruments made by Cerveny and engraved Cerveny

Or engraved whatever, a rotary Amati is one thing and the piston family is another. It's always a good idea to include some specific information. They do make a piston F - probably not with Vaughan WIlliams in mind exactly, though

Yep. That's the one I was referring to although mine is an Eb. A "Baby BBb" and a CC are made with essentially the same parts with the addition of some tubes. As I said, it doesn't play very well but I still like playing it.

I have seen Amati rotary tubas. I know someone with a BBb rotary Amati and he really likes it and is happy with it.

[marccromme]

I would not go for a 4v F o Eb tuba, unless compensated. I found the Wessex Danube 5v Eb tuba to be good all-round instrument within your price range. I like it much. They also have a 3+1 compensated 17"bell called Solo, which has a good reputation, but I can't say how it plays, as I never have tried it.