TubeNet

Hi,
I've been through this question a few times both privately and publically and with folks not on tubenet. Anyway, as I'm off the road more and more, I'm teaching and getting more and more calls for bass trombone. I played it in undergrad, an old 'Olds'. I owned a 181 which I loved the bark of but thought it would kill the left side of my body eventually. So, I'm looking for a doubling horn. My body is past 40 even if my mind isn't, I think I'd like 2 triggers because I'm a tuba player, and a setup that's easier for tuba players than trombone players is exactly what I'm looking for. I do have a medium size horn with a trigger now, but that's not cutting it. There are so many more choices than 20 years ago!
Thanks!

You could use an Ergobone and get any weight instrument you want....

For maximum flexibility in terms of notes and positions, I would definitely get an independent horn, which you should be used to from the TR181.

The TR181 is known for being pretty beastly in the weight department. It's quite a bit overbuilt. There are many more weight friendly options out there these days.

Some of the lightest horns out there are the Kanstul trombone line. They tend to use lighter gauge bells, and the CR valves they use are mostly hollow inside, so they weight less than even standard rotors. I have two Kanstul tenors, and they are quite nice. The feel and throw of the valve is very nice.

have a look at all the discussions and selling ads at thehttp://tromboneforum.org

You're enough of a trombone player that the (1st) trigger needs to be F, right?

I'm really a tuba player (sort of, anyway), and having no preconceived expectation for the valve tuning I drew out the separate E extension slide on my old Reynolds Contempora, and left it there, giving me a pretty full range and the lightest bass trombone in the world. I can elaborate, but I assume it's beside the point here.

Donn wrote:You're enough of a trombone player that the (1st) trigger needs to be F, right?

I'm really a tuba player (sort of, anyway), and having no preconceived expectation for the valve tuning I drew out the separate E extension slide on my old Reynolds Contempora, and left it there, giving me a pretty full range and the lightest bass trombone in the world. I can elaborate, but I assume it's beside the point here.

I'd find that pretty interesting actually. Historically the first "modern" bass trombones tuned in Bb/F had a long enough tuning slide on the attachment that they could pull the slide out to E. Some horns even had a slide stop similar to on a trumpet to facilitate quick E pulls, and others had two tuning slides, one for the E pull, and one for intonation.

George Roberts, aka Mr. Bass Trombone, was a big proponent of the Single valve bass trombone. He used a lot of false tones for runs, and you can find demonstrations of from Alan Raph (another legend) on youtube regarding this. The E pull would be used if a "proper" B natural was needed. From here also came the concept of the "slot in" valve for trombone, which basically was a second rotor in the F attachment tubing that would lower the key of the instrument to E, Eb, or D.

The YBL-622 and YBL-822 Basses from Yamaha are the Doug Yeo signature models, and they made the slot in valve much more design and ergonomically friendly.

tbonesullivan wrote:Some horns even had a slide stop similar to on a trumpet to facilitate quick E pulls, and others had two tuning slides, one for the E pull, and one for intonation.

Mine is an example of both, I suppose - the E slide is attached to a rod with an adjustable stop. I wouldn't dream of being able to deal with that on the fly, though. I have enough troubles as it is.

George Roberts, aka Mr. Bass Trombone, was a big proponent of the Single valve bass trombone. He used a lot of false tones for runs, and you can find demonstrations of from Alan Raph (another legend) on youtube regarding this. The E pull would be used if a "proper" B natural was needed.

Haven't worked very hard on it, but my false tones sure don't produce a proper B natural, hardly even an improper one. The false tones are to be found in a different place than on the tuba, apparently, but I never really found any anywhere that served me very well.

With a middle-of-the-road length slide like mine, an E pull gives it jest enough for B, with the slide kind of dangling on the stockings. A long right arm is needed, of course. If I were really interested in that B and I got tired of the stretch and the precarious position, I guess I would see about getting a custom slide for the attachment, to bring it down to Eb. A Bb/Eb bass trombone would put every pitch within easy range, at the expense of forcing the player to use 7th position, like a regular slide trombone.

I bought a 'Dillon' brand Bass two years ago and LOVE it. Much lighter than a 181 and still plenty of darkness to the sound. Just got to oil those valves constantly. I use a Schlike 59 or my old Marcinkowicz Roberts model.....

The Ergobone is nice and all but I don't find it to be a permanent fix- you'll feel it on your chest, moving is funny, and any elbow issues really won't be helped. Ironically, I found my old F contra (a Kanstul) to be better without the brace than basses with the brace. Bell-long, 6 position contras irritate me but they sit a lot better in person.

I started playing 4th trombone in jazz band on the school's Conn 88H in 1979.

I have in the last 5-10 years played some tuba/bass trombone books in pit orchestras. A local musician was horrified that I didn't have a proper instrument to do this. The musicians that I worked with had no such worries. My instrument is a "large bore tenor", and my tuba chops make the notes like a tuba player would want to hear them.

There are a lot of great bass trombones out there. Find one you like the sound of. It may turn out to be dependent or independent. I have owned both and find either works as long as you like the horn. Sheridan Brass has a grip that is removable and slips onto the slide and is great for providing hand support.
I have had a King 7B, which I believe Wessex or Mack brass has a copy of.
Kanstul has a great lightweight single valve bass that used to be able to be had with a second valve to put in the f valve tubing (curious if they still make that).
Rath makes some good bass trombnoes along with Edwards, and Greenhoe and now the M&W trombones which have greatly improved the greenhoe valve.
I have a newer edwards that I love the sound color of. Like anything, everyone has a favorite...
What do you want to use it for and what do you want to spend are probably most important. If weight is an issue, I have preferred that hand rest over the other methods to support the weight. easy in and out too especially if you have to pick up or put down the instrument frequently.