Page 1 of 1

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:15 am
by bort
Whoa... your tuba has a vibrato trigger? :)

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:26 am
by Ken Crawford
I would say you are spot on. Tubas should almost never use vibrato in ensemble playing but should without question use it on solo rep. Almost nobody wants to listen to a tuba solo as it is, so using vibrato, musically and tastefully, is a good way to add some element of beauty. Vibrato should be musical, not on or off, one speed all the time. Speeding up and slowing down vibrato and pausing vibrato at certain musical moments should be done. When I hear a tuba solo with nothing but changes in decibels, I think "boorrriiinggg." Trumpets, trombones and euphoniums all use vibrato in solos, tubists that don't are being musically lazy.

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:46 pm
by Steginkt
I was just having a conversation a few days ago with a rather prominent local trumpet player a few days ago on this very subject. He pointed out that in earlier days of (mostly east coast) american symphonies, block chord playing was expected to have vibrato, most of the players being from europe or the sons of european artists. I wonder at which point of our pedagogy this was phased out?

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:53 pm
by Tubaguyry
No vibrato = dead, rudimentary, non-musical tone. Soloists who play this way are automatically hacks to my ears.

I had wondered why so many of the supposedly "top" players coming out these days sound crappy like that. They're being TAUGHT not to play expressively? How sad. I've also noticed that WAY too many players just abruptly come off the end of their notes. There's no "flavor" or "finish" there...the sound just STOPS. Garbage playing. My very first thought when I hear that is that I'd like to instruct the offender to IMMEDIATELY purchase Floyd Cooley's "A Schumann Fantasy" and listen to the whole thing on repeat until he/she understands what a solo tuba is SUPPOSED to sound like.

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:36 pm
by KyleRichter
For what it's worth, I was taught and encouraged to use vibrato in solo playing by all of my teachers. They each had different ideas on when, why, and how much to use, but never was "no vibrato ever" an option or idea.

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:06 pm
by Rick F
My teacher/mentor for euphonium was the late Fred Dart. He said then that we euphonium players should use vibrato almost all the time. That may have been correct many years ago, but now I feel we shouldn't use vibrato in ensemble playing - except if we're playing a solo in the group. And then the type vibrato that lends itself to the music. For ballads I like to copy the human voice... adding a little vibrato to the end or back third of the held note. Jazzier pieces, a faster vibrato during solos.

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:48 pm
by Jay Bertolet
Bottom line is this:

If you weren't taught how and when to use vibrato, your musical education is incomplete. I am primarily an orchestral player (I can't remember the last time I actually played a solo piece in front of people) and I use vibrato all the time. This notion of only using vibrato in solo pieces is bunk. Strings and winds don't use it in such a limited way, what makes anyone think brass players should?

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:57 pm
by pjv
Bottom line; is the use of a vibrato at any given moment functional or not.

Changes per situation. That's the great thing about music; personal choice.

Even in solo situations I may not use vibrato. It all comes down to how I want to "say" something. Sometimes I'll put a tad of vibrato only on one note out of an entire series of phrases just because the music says, "do it here" to me. (less is more, etc)

Since in "our" register the notes are doing already quite a bit of audible vibrations on their own, I find it preferable to prudent with vibrato.

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:49 pm
by Dan Tuba
I think that developing vibrato and learning how to use vibrato is time well spent. I think that it adds another tool in your toolbox for shaping "musical" phrases. Of course, using the right tool for the job at hand is crucial for success and for maintaing good relationships with your colleagues. I think that spending time listening to how vocalists, string players, woodwind players, and even other brass players use vibrato across varying genres of music is also very beneficial.

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:14 am
by pjv
My observation has been that vibrato is less of a given and more of a technique outside many of the non-classical styles; avant-garde/modern/experimental, pop, jazz. This also holds true for many singers, sting players and woodwind players (inclu saxophones).

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:10 pm
by marccromme
Vibrato is added color and spice and I would miss it on all music I play - if used with taste.

Today our Brass Band conductor asked the basses (Eb + Bb) to warm up the sound by a small vibrato when accompagniying an Eb horn solo in the piece Demelza. Actually, this was pretty nice.

Re: trigger: vibrato

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:45 pm
by Slamson
This topic comes along every so often, and usually I just post the URL from the discussion in 2009. Today, I''m reposting my original thoughts on this. After cutting and pasting in the original text, I would only add that while one of the original posters mentioned that "all trained singers know vibrato", I'd have to say that apparently of the 300+ singers I've recorded over the years, I guess only about 100 of them have been properly trained...

from 2009:
"In my opinion, humble as it is, using vibrato is not a "yes or no" issue - or, for that matter, an "on or off" issue, as the speed and depth of vibrato needs to be taken into consideration for the music at hand.

On top of all that, it's been my experience that most players who "learn" vibrato do so without gaining an understanding of what vibrato is supposed to be. Since I am frequently challenged on this, I'll simply quote from the Oxford Dictionary:

"A wavering of pitch used to enrich and intensify the tone of a voice or instrument; it is practised in particular by wind players, string players, and singers."

I would add that we, as "singers of our instrument", also need to "practise" this wavering, or the result will be tremolo. Young students are especially susceptible to this. I am currently working with a very talented freshman player who, unfortunately, has a vibrato concept that is actually a very intense tremolo, and is having a difficult time learning to play without it. Once the tremolo is taken away (and any vibrato along with it), as Roger notes, the player also becomes aware of intonation problems.

It doesn't take that long to discuss the concept of vibrato with a student. Patiently working with the student to develop tasteful and controlled vibrato (in appropriate instances) is more gradual, but eventually more rewarding."