Trying to id a tuba Bookmark and Share

The bulk of the musical talk

Trying to id a tuba

Postby bnloewen » Tue May 23, 2017 12:07 pm

I am looking at what was described to me as being a "German Tuba", four rotary valves, Bb, with no labeling, other than a small marking of what appears to be an "A", but missing the horizontal line in the "A", in the middle of a music stand, with an oval around the entire symbol.

Can anyone help me out with who the manufacturer might be? Could this be an Amati symbol?

Thanks.

Barry
Bb Besson & Co. Prototype, 1917, Grandpa's old tuba
Eb Conn Helicon, 1893 (not working)
Bb Miraphone 186, 1970, cosmetically challenged
Bb Martin Mammoth, 1958, stunning
F Besson valve trombone, 1895, great shape
bnloewen
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:20 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby thevillagetuba » Tue May 23, 2017 12:45 pm

If you post or link to a picture, I'm sure info will come pouring in for you. Some here will be able to tell you just from seeing the wrap and braces and a picture of that symbol would help, as well. I don't know if enough information is contained in your description for anyone to give you an answer of any certainty.
Robert S. Pratt, CPT
MM Tuba Perf. - Wright State University
BM Tuba Perf. - Towson University
User avatar
thevillagetuba
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 687
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:40 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby bnloewen » Tue May 23, 2017 3:58 pm

http://s1253.photobucket.com/user/bnloe ... sort=3&o=0

Here is a link to a photo of the small engraved logo. The tuba looks old, looks German, has four rotary valves, and this is the only marking. I am hoping that someone can recognize the logo and id it.

Thanks.

Barry
Bb Besson & Co. Prototype, 1917, Grandpa's old tuba
Eb Conn Helicon, 1893 (not working)
Bb Miraphone 186, 1970, cosmetically challenged
Bb Martin Mammoth, 1958, stunning
F Besson valve trombone, 1895, great shape
bnloewen
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:20 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby Ken Crawford » Tue May 23, 2017 5:30 pm

Take pictures of the entire tuba, front and back.
User avatar
Ken Crawford
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:45 am
Location: Rexburg, ID

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby Dan Schultz » Tue May 23, 2017 6:24 pm

bnloewen wrote:http://s1253.photobucket.com/user/bnloewen/media/IMG_2808_zpsynulouvp.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0" target="_blank

Here is a link to a photo of the small engraved logo. The tuba looks old, looks German, has four rotary valves, and this is the only marking. I am hoping that someone can recognize the logo and id it.

Thanks.

Barry


I'm fairly certain that's a very early St. Petersburg. I sold a raw brass one that had five rotors some time ago that had that same logo. In other words... Russian. Not German.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
User avatar
Dan Schultz
TubaTinker
TubaTinker
 
Posts: 10358
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:46 pm
Location: Newburgh, Indiana

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby Michael Bush » Tue May 23, 2017 6:47 pm

bnloewen wrote:what appears to be an "A", but missing the horizontal line in the "A"

=the Greek letter lambda, probably also used in the Cyrillic alphabet, something "russiantuba" could clarify for us.

This tells nothing about identifying your tuba, but anyway that's what the symbol is.
Michael Bush
FAQ Czar
 
Posts: 2338
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 2:54 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby edsel585960 » Tue May 23, 2017 8:13 pm

Yep, old St. Pete or Leningrad logo.
Conn 20-21 J
Conn 22 J
Conn 10J, Conn 26 K, Martin Mammoth, Holton Mammoth, Reynolds Contempora, Mirafone 186, Soviet Helicon, F. Schediwy Kaiser
User avatar
edsel585960
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:28 pm
Location: SW Florida

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby bnloewen » Wed May 24, 2017 7:55 am

Yeah, I believe you guys are correct, it looks like pictures of an old Leningrad. I was hoping that it was not, as I have not read any good reviews for old Leningrads.

Thanks

Barry
Bb Besson & Co. Prototype, 1917, Grandpa's old tuba
Eb Conn Helicon, 1893 (not working)
Bb Miraphone 186, 1970, cosmetically challenged
Bb Martin Mammoth, 1958, stunning
F Besson valve trombone, 1895, great shape
bnloewen
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:20 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby chronolith » Wed May 24, 2017 2:32 pm

The letter you describe is the cyrillic letter for L (for Leningrad I assume). The picture link above produces an error though for me.

There used to be a website years ago for a German company that got a hold a load of Russian built horns and replaced the valve cluster with a german machine. This became St Petersburg I believe. The German rotors on those horns were a vast improvement and they made nice little tubas for the money. I had one and kinda miss it still.
User avatar
chronolith
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:26 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby russiantuba » Wed May 24, 2017 4:16 pm

Michael Bush wrote:
bnloewen wrote:what appears to be an "A", but missing the horizontal line in the "A"

=the Greek letter lambda, probably also used in the Cyrillic alphabet, something "russiantuba" could clarify for us.

This tells nothing about identifying your tuba, but anyway that's what the symbol is.


The picture won't load and I am getting an error message. However, based on the comments, that would make sense. The town of St. Petersburg in Russia changed its name to "Petrograd" during WWI (sounded too German), and after the death of Lenin and the Soviet coup d'etat, it was named Leningrad. After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the name of the town changed back to St. Petersburg.

The factory produced many instruments, many with the Leningrad name. They have since changed the name to reflect the change of name in the town. So, any instrument stamped with Leningrad would have been made prior to 1991. The old factory was, essentially, state owned, and made tubas based on an older style by Zimmerman from over a century ago. (Ironically, the Zimmerman tubas are similar to the Chinese tubas of today. Cerveny was the expensive brand of instruments, and the Zimmerman tubas were marketed to the amateur musician and military orchestras of the day at a cheaper price).

The company history can be found here.
http://stpetemusic.ru/index.php/en/history.html
Dr. James M. Green
Lecturer of Music--Low Brass
Ohio Northern University
Gronitz PF 125
Miraphone 1291CC
russiantuba
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:47 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby bnloewen » Wed May 24, 2017 5:43 pm

I believe that this tuba is an old Leningrad, thanks everyone for the comments.

I have an opportunity to purchase this machine, although it is not worth as much to me now that I know it is not a German tuba, but is a Russian tuba that one review has referred to as a "Tuba shaped spittoon", and "difficult to find a worse tuba".

Does anyone know what I would expect to pay to have the four rotary valve block replaced, to improve this machine? Maybe I can factor that into the price.

Thanks

Barry
Bb Besson & Co. Prototype, 1917, Grandpa's old tuba
Eb Conn Helicon, 1893 (not working)
Bb Miraphone 186, 1970, cosmetically challenged
Bb Martin Mammoth, 1958, stunning
F Besson valve trombone, 1895, great shape
bnloewen
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:20 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby Tom » Wed May 24, 2017 6:43 pm

bnloewen wrote:Does anyone know what I would expect to pay to have the four rotary valve block replaced, to improve this machine? Maybe I can factor that into the price.


Unless there is some reason you just have to have this Leningrad tuba, don't bother with a project like replacing the valve block on it. You'd be upside down on it in a heartbeat and could never even hope to recoup that money if you sold it. Take what you would have spent to buy the Leningrad and do that project and buy a German tuba like you really want. Perhaps a used B&S or Miraphone?
Last edited by Tom on Thu May 25, 2017 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Darling Of The Thirty-Cents-Sharp Low Dâ™­'s.
Tom
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1540
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:01 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby bnloewen » Wed May 24, 2017 9:18 pm

Thanks, good advice, I will pass on it.

Barry
Bb Besson & Co. Prototype, 1917, Grandpa's old tuba
Eb Conn Helicon, 1893 (not working)
Bb Miraphone 186, 1970, cosmetically challenged
Bb Martin Mammoth, 1958, stunning
F Besson valve trombone, 1895, great shape
bnloewen
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:20 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby bnloewen » Fri May 26, 2017 11:32 am

You guys were very helpful with this one, can I try another one? This one is an auction, description is a tuba, but it looks more like a baritone, with a bent curved bell. Three valves, rotary. There is no brand name on it, but this is the marked engraving. Can anyone please ID this engraving?

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... mxmpkv.jpg

Thanks again.

Barry
Bb Besson & Co. Prototype, 1917, Grandpa's old tuba
Eb Conn Helicon, 1893 (not working)
Bb Miraphone 186, 1970, cosmetically challenged
Bb Martin Mammoth, 1958, stunning
F Besson valve trombone, 1895, great shape
bnloewen
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:20 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby sousaphone68 » Sat May 27, 2017 4:52 am

Is it the first photo that you are trying to ID?
The logo in the second photo looks like the Leningrad logo.
The other photographs especially the family one with the old tuba look like they deserve a thread of their own.
I would like to know more about the tuba through the generations and the Eb helicon.
Cant carry a tune but I can carry a tuba.
Image
User avatar
sousaphone68
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:46 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby bnloewen » Mon May 29, 2017 3:59 pm

Wow, sorry, I did not realize that I was posting all those photos. I cannot access "Photobucket" on my work computer, so I was posting them with my cell phone, which is kind of clunky for someone with fat fingers.

The photo of my old tuba is a Besson, the serial number places it WWI vintage. My grandfather's brother supposedly played it when he was in the PPCLI (Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry) Band in WWI, but I don't know for sure, everyone is long gone. The original photo is a picture of my grandparents holding my aunt in the tuba. The next one is a current photo with my parents with the tuba. My mom is the two year older sister of the baby in the first photo and is currently 84 years old, so the picture would be around 82 years old. Kind of neat that the dents all match up. Before I found this photo, I was considering having some of the dents taken out, but I have now changed my mind.

My grandfather's brother (great uncle) gave me this tuba in 1983. He had an old schoolhouse filled with instruments that he had acquired when the town band had shutdown. I had graduated from high school and had consequently lost the tuba I had been loaned, so he gave me this tuba to get me by until I got a replacement. Despite the age and all the dents, it still plays remarkably well.
Bb Besson & Co. Prototype, 1917, Grandpa's old tuba
Eb Conn Helicon, 1893 (not working)
Bb Miraphone 186, 1970, cosmetically challenged
Bb Martin Mammoth, 1958, stunning
F Besson valve trombone, 1895, great shape
bnloewen
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:20 pm

Re: Trying to id a tuba

Postby sousaphone68 » Mon May 29, 2017 4:47 pm

Thanks for the reply it is very cool to have a family history tied into an instrument.
Cant carry a tune but I can carry a tuba.
Image
User avatar
sousaphone68
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:46 pm
Location: Ireland


Return to TubeNet

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bisontuba, Google Adsense [Bot] and 25 guests