Air Flow Gauge

[zangerzzz]

Arnold Jacobs had a tube connected to a mouthpiece that went to an gauge to measure air flow used while playing. I've made the tube and mouthpiece apparatus but can't find the correct gauge. I have not been able to find one sensitive enough. Anyone out there know where I can find one or have any experience with such an apparatus?

ThnkZ!

[smitwill1]

Are you sure that it measures flow? The pictures of what I think you're describing is a variable resistance (pressure) gauge. It measures pressure/vacuum on the same gauge. Id suggest getting one that tops out at 5 psig and 15 in Hg or so.
https://www.grainger.com/category/press ... alog/N-bdk" target="_blank

[Highpitch]

Dwyer makes a series of very sensitive gauges just for low pressure air measurement under the type 'Magnehelic'.

Dennis

[timothy42b]

Water manometer

[happyroman]

Arnold Jacobs had a tube connected to a mouthpiece that went to an gauge to measure air flow used while playing. I've made the tube and mouthpiece apparatus but can't find the correct gauge. I have not been able to find one sensitive enough. Anyone out there know where I can find one or have any experience with such an apparatus?

ThnkZ!

That device of Mr. Jacobs was measuring the air pressure in the oral cavity. He used it in his studies comparing all of the brass instruments. A couple of the notable results from these studies included that two different instruments, playing the same enharmonic note (at the same dynamic) had the same air pressure in the oral cavity. So, a tuba player playing their high C and a trumpet player playing their low C had the same air pressure. Mr. Jacobs would say to his tuba students that they should not be working hard when the trumpet player was loafing.

He also discovered that for all of the instruments, the air pressure doubled as they went up an octave. If the player used too much air pressure in the low register, it would still double, and the work effort quickly became too much as they played higher. For example, if a low note on tuba required four oz. of air pressure, and it doubled every octave, the air pressure would go from 4-8-16. But if they started the same note at 8 oz. of pressure (not too different from four oz.) the doubling effect resulted in 8-16-32. As you can see, the difference at the upper end is dramatic.

[zangerzzz]

That device of Mr. Jacobs was measuring the air pressure in the oral cavity. He used it in his studies comparing all of the brass instruments. A couple of the notable results from these studies included that two different instruments, playing the same enharmonic note (at the same dynamic) had the same air pressure in the oral cavity. So, a tuba player playing their high C and a trumpet player playing their low C had the same air pressure. Mr. Jacobs would say to his tuba students that they should not be working hard when the trumpet player was loafing.

He also discovered that for all of the instruments, the air pressure doubled as they went up an octave. If the player used too much air pressure in the low register, it would still double, and the work effort quickly became too much as they played higher. For example, if a low note on tuba required four oz. of air pressure, and it doubled every octave, the air pressure would go from 4-8-16. But if they started the same note at 8 oz. of pressure (not too different from four oz.) the doubling effect resulted in 8-16-32. As you can see, the difference at the upper end is dramatic.

This particular gauge seemed to be specific to the tuba mouthpiece it was attached to. Maybe he had gauges on mouthpieces for other instruments.
I'm tryin to recreate the apparatus to help with my development. He had me play with that device having me keep the ball in the gauge at a certain level (like 1/2 way on the scale) to get proper air usage. It really helped my playing.

[Tom]

Anything of interest here?

http://www.windsongpress.com/breathing-devices

[PaulMaybery]

I recall in my lessons with Mr. Jacobs using that old crustly mouthpiece with the nipple on it that led through as rubber hose to a gauge with a dial. My take was that one needed to keep a certain amount of atmospheric pressure inside the cup to support a healthy sound. At first I recall the needle was all over the place and eventually I was able to keep it in the zone. It was a great visualizer on maintaining good control and demonstrated to 'runny nose kids' like me just how undisciplined our playing actually was. But back then, most of what Jake was talking about went over my head, and it took a good 20 years for me to actually grasp what he was trying to communicate. Never-the-less he did have a certain way in his teaching.

[zangerzzz]

I recall in my lessons with Mr. Jacobs using that old crustly mouthpiece with the nipple on it that led through as rubber hose to a gauge with a dial.

Yes this is what I'm trying to copy.

[happyroman]

Anything of interest here?

http://www.windsongpress.com/breathing-devices

You can attach a mouthpiece to the Inspiron with the tube provided, or you can make your own with vinyl tubing available from the hardware store (using 1/2" inside diameter tubing). The Inspiron has a dial which allows you to adjust the amount of air required to elevate the ball.

http://www.windsongpress.com/product/inspiron" target="_blank

Here is a video of Alessandro Fossi demonstrating this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0sEPIbhGQ8" target="_blank

[PaulMaybery]

If I recall correctly, it was back in 1972. The mouthpiece was set up with a hole drilled into the side wall of the mouthpiece and something akin to a grease fitting attached at that point. The hose was coupled from there to the gauge.
The mp was put into the tuba pretty much as normal and then you would play. Jake wanted you to be able to keep the needle in the zone and emphasised that even very soft playing needs to have a certain amount of air moving through the mp to secure the focus or core to the sound.
The blue respirometer is an entirely different contraption.
With that mouthpiece you were able to get a sense of your sound and how it related to airflow. You became a witness to how you sounded in relation to what you understood about your wind and keeping that certain atmospheric pressure inside the cup.

[zangerzzz]

You can attach a mouthpiece to the Inspiron with the tube provided, or you can make your own with vinyl tubing available from the hardware store (using 1/2" inside diameter tubing). The Inspiron has a dial which allows you to adjust the amount of air required to elevate the ball.
ThnkZ I'll give that a try.
Still workin on the other apparatus. Let me know if some other ideas come forth.

[Eflatdoubler]

Bagpipers use manometers to establish consistency of air pressure.
Perhaps this will shed some more light into what you are looking for:
http://bagpipejourney.com/articles/manometer.shtml" target="_blank

I have seen Amati spit valves attached to a mouthpiece along with a arm attached to it so that you can partially open the valve while playing and get a hybrid sound of buzzing and the actual sound coming out of the instrument.
Terry Ghiselli is an excellent repairman in San Antonio who had built me one. If I can find it I will upload pictures. I remember him saying he had wished for a larger version of the Amati spit valve so that it would be more effective for low brass instruments. This was over 10 years ago, and I have seen other water keys that have been made that might provide a better solution.