How do you get a college teaching job?

[toobagrowl]

Don't hope to be chosen on your (even outstanding!) qualifications. There seems to be an inbred network of folks who get interviewed and hired.

This seems very true as an outsider looking in. There are also (apocryphal) reports that such 'inbred networks' even play factors in orchestral audition.

Yep, very true in my area. Used to be the best player got the gig (orchestra, etc.). But now it seems the most-degreed-with-connections person gets it. There are even some professional performing groups now that explicitly state that you have to have at least a masters degree to even be considered for an audition. This, for a performing ensemble.

I'm fine with colleges and universities doing this. But I'm NOT fine with performing groups doing this And this has been going on for years now.

I disagree. Look at the topmost level of LEGENDS of the instrument who have been teaching at the university level since what seems like the beginning of time. Now tell me how many of THOSE guys have their doctoral degrees.

There is also a difference I believe based upon the institution. The 'top-tier' schools can and do seek out people who have performed at the very highest levels without as much regard for the diplomas earned. This does not seem to be the case for most of the University world where letters after your name count.

A local institution recently ended relationship with one of the finest local tubists because they, "weren't recruiting enough tuba students". The administration decided that someone with a DMA would be a better draw, so they hired a euphonium player (with a DMA and who is a fine person/etc), to teach and recruit tubas.

Yep. I know of several examples (not just tuba, but other brass positions) in my area that do the same thing It's honestly kinda shitty, but it is what it is...

[Watchman]

A person is going to get an adjunct job and promote themselves...
...solos/clinics at symposiums, other universities, c.d. release, finalist at orchestra auditions, pick up the euphonium AND the trombone, become a music history wonk (so you won't have to be the "low brass/pep band" guy), etc, etc...

We're back to another problem now. All that stuff you mentioned is absolutely essential to get that job, but how much of it PAYS, as opposed to being yet another drain financially?

Some universities have a budget for guest artists, but does your appearance pay cover the plane ticket and "tubas-on-a-plane" penalty fee? We know that auditions don't pay unless you win. How much money is your awesome "Tuba CD" going to make you? Becoming a near virtuoso on Euph and Trombone is going to take time....time where you won't be getting paid. Your adjunct job probably pays you less than your assistantship from grad school.

Once again, the whole thing where you have to support yourself is a big problem. So either....

1. It doesn't matter that you don't make any money, because you have a trust fund, or benefactor, or rich spouse.

2. You live in poverty with other musician/artist types; eat flour, oil, and Ramen, for over a decade; ignore most health problems because you can't afford to go to a doctor; watch other people you went to school with buy cars, houses, and have kids; and HOPE that one day your tuba dream comes true.

3. You make a living doing various non-glamorous things, while ALSO doing your tuba thing, then don't ever mention those things in public because your story sounds so much better when you omit them.

[tubalex]

This line of work takes more sacrifice than other lines of work. I had plenty of "real" jobs on the way to my full-fledged career. It's OK and it's normal. And it's OK to be struggling financially, as long as you are getting better and refining your professional package. It's OK to hang on and it's OK to quit. Accepting what you really value most and following up responsibly is the only crucial step.

[tubalex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmpGnyV1tFE" target="_blank

[Leto Cruise]

Great advice from Justin, Alex, and Tom who have made it in this business.

With all due respect Watchman, what's your goal with this thread? Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to have a negative view of the business in general. These three gentlemen have omitted a special characteristic trait that has led to their success that they all have in common. Their attitude.

[Michael Bush]

With all due respect Watchman, what's your goal with this thread?

Am I the only one who...? Oh, nevermind.

[Leto Cruise]

-

[Michael Bush]

Am I the only one who...? Oh, nevermind.

I'm talking about reading between the lines for intent. Inquisitive people only ask and learn. The vibe I get here is different. Insinuations of waste of time, waste of money, scaring away young guys from the business.

Seems to me he asked a good question, and received some very thoughtful and helpful responses, especially compared to so much that goes by on here, like, oh, the suggestion that tubas win auditions, just as a for instance.

[tubalex]

Watchman: you observe and raise plenty of valid points about the difficulties and oddities of getting this kind of job. If those outweigh the value of having this kind of job for you, then you may be ready to decide to do something else. You are not going to change the system, especially if you aren't going to do what you need to do to get inside the system. So complaining about the system from the outside is a little pointless, especially when there are plenty of people who have these jobs who will be very open and honest about the SEVERE imperfections in the system, the low number of positions, and the over abundance of people pursuing some (but usually not all) of what it takes to get the work.

Bloke: "Other stuff" is a big part of any tenure-track position at any university in any field. My studio is about 12-15 students, but those lessons are less than half of my 40+ hour work week, and I don't teach music appreciation, theory, rock history, etc.
The fact that the hours spent teaching lessons is not even the majority of the work week in a non-adjunct job was a splash of cold water to me when I got my first full-time teaching job. It's also a strong argument for a DMA being a good qualification for a job like mine. A lot of what I do has nothing to do with time in the practice room or on stage.

Other things that take up my time at UT:
Studio class
Large and small ensemble coaching
Faculty quintet
Meetings that keep the area, school, college, university, community functioning and growing
Scheduling recitals,masterclasses, community performances
Working on funding for guest artists, commissions, and my own tours
Advising students
Recruiting students
Attending recital hearings, recitals, large ensemble concerts
Being available to help students in and out of my studio when the unexpected comes up
And practicing three instruments daily

That has a lot to do with why I don't post here regularly; too busy with work.

There are plenty of academic faculty who teach huge student populations, but those teachers aren't expected to recruit for the school, to be heavily involved in community engagement, be part of the support system for ensembles, be the advisor for all those students, or to foster a performing community and career.

Hell, there are research faculty in the sciences here who don't teach a single traditional class, and I'm OK with that because we are all working at our expertise to serve the institution, which exists to serve the state. I'd invite anyone to guess how many hours Kelly and I, combined, put into ITEC 2016, because your guess would almost certainly be low. And neither of us got an extra penny for that, because that's the sort of thing that's part of this kind of job.

I agree the move in the 70's and 80's toward every school or department of music having a full-time tuba/euphonium teacher led to an overreach and we are seeing a correction for that now. I'll also agree that there are too many schools offering tuba/euph DMA degrees for the job market (one of the reasons I like working at UT, where we don't offer a DMA). I'll agree that many of the great teachers on our instruments don't/didn't have DMAs (not a single one of my primary teachers have a DMA, but if they were in this current job market rather than the market they entered in the 70s and 80s SOME of them probably would have gotten the terminal degree).

But all that being said, I love my job and I do think it's valuable to the state. My DM is not one bit more important to the quality of the work I do than my performing experience and teaching experience, but my DM was transformative for me and even if it didn't lead to a career I'd still be grateful for the person it helped me become. I am proud that I climbed that mountain and that I get to spend everyday helping people and bringing beauty and generosity into this world. Most of my students are Music Education majors. Even the performance students will teach to one degree or another, and I personally think teaching future teachers is one of the most noble and valuable things I could do with my life. You are getting your state tax money's worth out of me and then some, I promise. I'm sure I'm not the only one in Tennessee using your tax money to work an enormous amount make the world a better place via studio teaching. The fact that I had such a long, complex and difficult path to this position makes me treasure it all the more, and I think that comes across in my work as a positive influence on the next generation of musicians and music teachers in Tennessee.

[Watchman]

My "intent" is the truth. I'm the other guy in the Seinfeld clip. For any young guys reading this, they need to know just how hard it is before they decide to go into it. I feel that is something that really gets glossed over in school. Attitude is important, but so is reality.

The responses have been pretty good so far. The big takeaway for me is that the people that did it had to grind for a LOONG time, and sometimes make questionable financial decisions/moves, all for the love of their craft. It was probably scary a lot of the time for them, but they kept going.

[tubalex]

OK, if you're not gonna go there I won't either.

A couple of other arguments against that:

What if the one or two universities that have studios are a really bad fit the people that want to study? I really dig UT, but if the school is not for you, it really really is not for you.

Also, if admission to a quality studio was limited to the very best high school players in every state, I would not have gotten into music school as an undergraduate student. Most people in every field don't have their ducks in a row at the end of high school. Especially since American society is moving away from producing adults out of high school, and relegating that maturation process to college, a lot of people who could go on to have great careers would be knocked out of the running by reducing things that much.


And Isn't it satisfyingly efficient to have a professor teach more than one subject at a smaller school?

Ok, three arguments.

[Watchman]

Watchman: you observe and raise plenty of valid points about the difficulties and oddities of getting this kind of job. If those outweigh the value of having this kind of job for you, then you may be ready to decide to do something else.

You got me. I'm not really in this business, but wanted to have this discussion anyway. Lots of people read this forum, and I think this information is useful. Most of the time, we just talk about CC vs BBb and stuff like that.

[UDELBR]

Before Rich Matteson was hired by North Texas State University, he was playing gigs all over the place (on a Meinl-Weston 11 tuba and a Meinl-Weston rotary euphonium) while selling Meinl-Weston tubas out of the back of his station wagon (absolutely: to pay his bills). I wonder - were someone to do something like that today (while struggling to make their mark towards consideration for a full-time university faculty position) - would selection committee members today judge such behavior to be pedestrian ?

I know for a fact that Rich had no doctorate whatsoever.

[Watchman]

would selection committee members today judge such behavior to be pedestrian ?

That's like your story about your high school band director selling suits at Sears on the weekends. Some people assume you don't have it together if you have to take "degrading" jobs. That is my theory for why some of the real difficulties of everyday life as a musician/teacher/tuba player get glossed over. Nobody wants to look like they don't have it together, am I right?

[Slamson]

I sure am glad that Watchman started this thread...
But in the "good old days" most Schools of Music didn't care if you had a doctorate. You answered the ad for the JOB with a cover letter showing that you had a healthy record of professional playing experience, documented your teaching ability, got references from "heavy hitters". Then, assuming that you could survive the cut to the interview stage, you showed up, played a small recital, did some teaching, and worked with the faculty to show them that you, just like in kindergarten, "play well with others." Since DMAs were relatively rare, nobody considered them a "must".

The doctorate thing has always been a bone in my throat. I was lucky that when I started candidates without doctoral degrees could be selected over those with doctorates. Since then I've lost track of how many search committees I've been on, but I vividly recall three searches where the committee selected three kick-*** players on their instrument, only to be told that the school was going with the second choice because that candidate had their doctorate (of course, they had their doctorate from the Acme School of Music, but a doctorate's a doctorate!)
And yes, "who you know" can make a difference. I was strong-armed once to give "special attention" to a particular candidate... telling a Dean to go to hell is possible once you've got tenure, but you can forget applying for full professor until the Dean is gone...

[MaryAnn]

I think a lot depends on the particular school.
Edited out incorrect info about Kelly Thomas and his position at U of A.
Locally, the regional orchestra hires people they know. Not that they don't hire people they don't know, but they sure do hire people they know, people who already live locally and play locally. That doesn't mean they aren't qualified; it means they have a leg up on people who are not known. This is a weird culture here, almost but not quite Southern. There is another brass department that will be hiring a teacher "soon," and the current local candidate is getting his DMA just so he can get that job, having been told (my understanding, once again, second hand info) that because he is liked so well by the students that if he can get qualified the job is likely his. Tenure track? I don't know. but I doubt it, because things have changed. I know him, and he IS nice, and plays extremely well, but he's not Phil Myers. Or Eric Ruske.
Just sayin'.....where it is and what it is, is a factor. I walked from paid music and went into engineering in my 30s because it was just so damn obvious where I did and did not belong.
How many music students of tuba / euph are going to get anything other than a high school teaching job anyway, if that? I told someone once, that being a brass teacher in college was a situation of "I'm going to teach this instrument to a bunch of people who are not going to be able to get jobs except teaching this instrument when they get out, and most of them are going to end up elsewhere." This was said to a person who was taking an expensive, personal course on how to make money in real estate, and needed to be told that if the guy teaching the course was as able as he said to get rich selling real estate, he'd be out doing that and not teaching some expensive private course to other people.
Plus, there is quite a difference between a DMA from a mediocre school and a DM from a good school. I found the final oral exam of a local DMA laughable because the complexity was about that of a freshman engineering course. Not to insult anyone here....but no wonder they want a DMA. The standards of education have fallen so much, that you have to get higher and higher degrees just to be where a person would have been after grade school 150 years ago. All the time here I see people who can't even write legible and correct English, and I wonder, what is their level of "education?"
Not much to do with the topic at hand, just offhand blathering comments from someone collecting a comfortable pension because she changed jobs when it mattered back when.

[tubalex]

MaryAnn:

I think you've got some storylines mixed up. Not only was Kelly tenure-track at UA, he was tenured and then promoted to full professor before he left. He left UA for extremely compelling and admirable family reasons, and it's not my place to put any more detail about that here, but trust me, it was a tremendously and inspirationally dignified move on his part to come to UT. The people who took over his jobs at UA (Matt Tropman, formerly of the US Marine Band) and UT (me) are both currently tenure-track in those positions.

You might be thinking of my old job at NAU, which has never been a tenure-track position, but that's a considerably smaller state school than UA.

[mceuph]

I'll pop back in for a sec for this. Outside if Alex, there's s Tom of incorrect conjecture and opinion here. Having made my way as a full time and adjunct prof for over 13 years I have a few things to add:

-true: dms are a dimeca dozen now. If you want to get your foot on the door, get some experience. Likely adjunct,

-"college job" doesn't necessarily mean tuba-euph job. In fact very few of those exist anymore. Music theory, conducting, marching band, etc. be able to do one if you want to be more marketable

-win something. It won't get you a job, bit will possibly get you in the door


-for full time in 2017, doctorate degree is hands down absolute must have. End of story

- playing/teaching is about 50-70 % of wha earns tenure. Each situation/school/faculty is an individual situation. Pick the type of university that suits your skills and personality. Navigating the tenure maze can be extremely complicated. You must have the temperament and organizational skills and possibly research skills to match the institution.

- don't just be good at euphonium...trust me

[UDELBR]

- don't just be good at euphonium...trust me

That speaks for itself. (sorry euphers...)

[Eflatdoubler]

I began my doctorate in 2001, ABD in 2006 and finally finished in 2012. I was teaching adjunct at a community college mainly for the sake of being more marketable most of that time. The faculty were great as were the classes offered to the students. Unfortunately most of the students there were below the level of a high school 3rd band. I was also freelancing quite a bit and teaching a bunch of HS students. Like others have said it has to be something you really want. I was pretty well rooted in Houston playing and got married and had kids during that time so it wasn't quite as easy (I didn't really want to) to pick up and relocate again. I wasn't interested in going to a situation that lacked the variety and number of performance opportunities that I was enjoying and the pay was not exactly something that would make up what I would be giving up (in my mind). I stopped teaching at the two year school because it was only a means to get to a four year school, and I realized there were very few I would enjoy teaching at regardless if I was found to be qualified or not. I have been teaching elementary music these past 11 years which I have enjoyed, both for the chance to work with the kids and for the freedom it gives me to perform, along with a paycheck that I was content with.
The ladies and gentlemen who have been tenure tracked or are in the process have paid their dues if you look at what they have done. I will say this, the longer you stay out of actively searching for a position the more detrimental it will be, unless you augment your activities by publishing articles or doing something to show scholarly research.
I still teach privately, but now only teach who I want to, and like Bloke referenced- only those who are willing to put in the work.
I would recommend being comfortable teaching all low brass and perhaps having a web page to showcase your talents along with being well diversified as the studio portion of the gig is often not even the majority of what is asked. Research the institutions you are applying for and learn what you can of the school and how you can add to the success of it. Of course, have recent recordings available along with being ready to showcase your playing. A short solo recital of 30 minutes to demonstrate your abilities that you can safely perform successfully and show your artistry. Be prepared to teach a masterclass to a few students of varying levels along with interviewing with the committee. You should keep a CV updated along with having references and transcripts ready. Make sure the people you choose for your references are ones that know you well and can speak well of you.
Good luck!