186: POLL Bookmark and Share

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186

Love 'em.
28
35%
Leave 'em.
15
19%
Change 'em more.
1
1%
Put 'em back the way they was.
36
45%
 
Total votes : 80

186: POLL

Postby bloke » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:37 pm

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Re: 186: POLL

Postby the elephant » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:07 pm

I like the new ones a lot, but I wish they would release a "classic" version with the exact, same bell used in the late 1960's (with CAD to sniff out any pitch errors that the bell itself might introduce). The new horns are easier to play, but boring, IMHO. So the modern horn from the mouthpiece through the upper bow, and perhaps the old style (and manufacturing techniques) bell and *maybe* the bottom bow.

If having to make a choice between a late 1960s (or early 1970s) era 186-5U CC and the current 186 I would probably opt for the "issues" and go for the sound and feel (and flat 23 5th) of the old horn.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby bloke » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:30 pm

I suspect the more consistently accessible intonation is in the smaller parts of the instrument. The sheet-metal bell and bows - I would have to imagine - would at least double the cost, and cut way back on production... just as I would imagine it would with the B&S F tubas.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby 58mark » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:35 pm

the elephant wrote:I like the new ones a lot, but I wish they would release a "classic" version with the exact, same bell used in the late 1960's (with CAD to sniff out any pitch errors that the bell itself might introduce). The new horns are easier to play, but boring, IMHO. So the modern horn from the mouthpiece through the upper bow, and perhaps the old style (and manufacturing techniques) bell and *maybe* the bottom bow.

If having to make a choice between a late 1960s (or early 1970s) era 186-5U CC and the current 186 I would probably opt for the "issues" and go for the sound and feel (and flat 23 5th) of the old horn.



My wessex Prague plays a lot like an old 186 because it has the smaller bell. I just wish the valves felt like a miraphone. Yes, I've thought about a valve transpant
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby Heliconer » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:21 am

I suppose it all boils down to personal preference, but having repaired a few dozen of these, I'm just not impressed by the sound. To me they are like Yamaha tubas; not much variation or character from one to the next.

Although, that does take the guess work out of buying them on eBay :tuba:
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby kathott » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:13 pm

Could you amend this poll? It is somewhat incompleat. I am a longtime Mirafone player, but I don't know enough about the various changes made to this model over the years: the later smaller leadpipe, larger bell, venting, the short lived and quite silly "Presto" system, flat whole step 5th valve/right hand operated. To assess these changes, one would have to have several 186's of varying vintage side by side. My own 186 CC (4+1) was made in 1966. It's a workhorse.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby bloke » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:04 pm

kathott wrote:Could you amend this poll? It is somewhat incompleat. I am a longtime Mirafone player, but I don't know enough about the various changes made to this model over the years: the later smaller leadpipe, larger bell, venting, the short lived and quite silly "Presto" system, flat whole step 5th valve/right hand operated. To assess these changes, one would have to have several 186's of varying vintage side by side. My own 186 CC (4+1) was made in 1966. It's a workhorse.


There's a 5-valve 1963 model here that - serendipidously - offers as-good-as-current-versions intonation, combined with the handmade 16-1/2" bell sheet metal sound (and like-new condition rotors).
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby bort » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:07 pm

bloke wrote:There's a 5-valve 1963 model here that - serendipidously - offers as-good-as-current-versions intonation, combined with the handmade 16-1/2" bell sheet metal sound (and like-new condition rotors).


Showoff. :roll: :)
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby bloke » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:27 pm

bort wrote:
bloke wrote:There's a 5-valve 1963 model here that - serendipidously - offers as-good-as-current-versions intonation, combined with the handmade 16-1/2" bell sheet metal sound (and like-new condition rotors).


Showoff. :roll: :)


I'll probably sell it, eventually.
Someone else can show it off.
I'll only show it off when advertising it.
nope: not now.
It's one of those "rare" tubas...but (again) I'm not a collector.
I'm afraid that (in my care) it would collect dust.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby iiipopes » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:04 am

I voted for "more change." The old stove pipe bell, to my ears, is too "point-and-shoot" (yes, knowing that a lot of players love that sound). Again, to my ears, the new 17 3/4 bell is too "vanilla" and does not have the best definition (knowing that Miraphone is seeking a broader market). I had the '60's recording bell for awhile. It did not capture the "American tone" that was the goal, and it made everything too front-heavy. I had a retrofit detachable St. Pete bell for awhile. The tone was big and full, leaning towards Alex territory, but again, this is a Miraphone, not an Alex.

As most of you know, my 186 now has a Besson New Standard BBb 17 inch bell. Tone and intonation are great, especially for my application: community concert band. I believe if Miraphone took the taper and bell throat of that bell, which is a slightly different log curve than others, and extended the diameter about an inch to help the terminal node develop for the privileged and pedal tones, it would be a great improvement, along with going back to the smaller bore, different taper of the old leadpipes to bring back out a little more of the even overtones so the tone will knit to the rest of the ensemble better.

But keep the valves - the best rotary valves in the business.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby the elephant » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:41 pm

bloke wrote:There's a 5-valve 1963 model here that - serendipidously - offers as-good-as-current-versions intonation, combined with the handmade 16-1/2" bell sheet metal sound (and like-new condition rotors).


Depending on your final determination of price and when it was eventually offered up for sale, I would *for certain* be interested in this tuba. (Not a promise to purchase, but I am seriously interested in this tuba.)

I happen to know a mean, middle-aged, obese guy would would take care of the "shipping" for free, including pickup at your fine estate...

:tuba:
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby Rebel » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:55 am

I have a 1968 186BBb 4 valve. Great horn, and love the quality and craftsmanship of a horn made "in the day".
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby Voisi1ev » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:00 pm

http://i.imgur.com/h53RQG8.jpg

Maybe it deserves its own thread, but the school I teach at picked up this horn a couple years back. It came with the recording bell! Makes me want to join a polka band. Plays like a 186...however you take that :P
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby Tom » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:25 pm

Voisi1ev-

The tuba is certainly interesting, but it's the case that really got my attention! I'd actually be interested in seeing more photos of that just out of sheer curiosity.

Another thread would likely be more appropriate so that it doesn't totally take this one off the rails.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby rodgeman » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:10 pm

Voisi1ev wrote:
Maybe it deserves its own thread, but the school I teach at picked up this horn a couple years back. It came with the recording bell! Makes me want to join a polka band. Plays like a 186...however you take that :P


I have one. It is a 186. My recording bell says Mirafone.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby roweenie » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:23 pm

That case is interesting, but it sort of defeats one of the main advantages of a detachable bell, doesn't it?
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby Voisi1ev » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:09 pm

Both bells are the original Miraphone ones.

We got the horn through a Federal Surplus program, so the case came with it. I assume it was from a NASA band that toured, thus needing a case to withstand a shuttle launch. It is YUUUUGE. Like they don't need to build a wall, just put that thing on the US/Canadian border and no one else is sneaking through. I'd love to sell the case, but not sure there is a market for it. I've put it on the for sale board before.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby the elephant » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:59 pm

That is an actual ATA-approved FLIGHT CASE. Looks to me like an Anvil product. Most things you see advertised or hyped here under the name "flight case" are not actually approved by the ATA and so are not actual cases designed for safe use on aircraft. I have had a Miraphone 188 in one of these fall off the conveyer about 25 to 30 feet onto the tarmac. There was almost zero damage. The very outer edge of the bell flare on the front (just under the lid when closed) was bent about a quarter inch back along a two and a half inch run. That is it. From nearly three stories onto cement. THAT is a flight case. None of the other "flight" cases could withstand that sort of impact. Only an ATA-approved case will properly protect your horn under an airliner. Of course, these cost a LOT and then, in turn, cost a LOT to transport, and they are a cast iron "female dog" to transport. However, that is the price you pay (literally and figuratively) if you need to fly with a horn and have it arrive in one piece every time. Anything less than that is less than that. ATA case standards are super high and difficult to attain. Anvil made the best flight cases in the world. They might still, but I do not know.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby MartyNeilan » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:49 pm

the elephant wrote:I like the new ones a lot, but I wish they would release a "classic" version with the exact, same bell used in the late 1960's (with CAD to sniff out any pitch errors that the bell itself might introduce). The new horns are easier to play, but boring, IMHO. So the modern horn from the mouthpiece through the upper bow, and perhaps the old style (and manufacturing techniques) bell and *maybe* the bottom bow.

If having to make a choice between a late 1960s (or early 1970s) era 186-5U CC and the current 186 I would probably opt for the "issues" and go for the sound and feel (and flat 23 5th) of the old horn.


this.
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Re: 186: POLL

Postby bloke » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:35 pm

bloke wrote:I suspect the more consistently accessible intonation is in the smaller parts of the instrument.
The sheet-metal bell and bows - I would have to imagine - would at least double the cost, and cut way back on production...
just as I would imagine it would with the B&S F tubas.
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