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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby Mark Finley » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:58 pm

TheGoyWonder wrote:Small-bore/short leadpipe rotary exist. Well minus the small bore, lots of stubby/short-model type designs have a shortish leadpipe. What about large bore/long leadpipe piston? Never seen a piston tuba with curving long leadpipe along the top bow as archetypical rotaries do. Now THAT would be a frankenhorn.


check out the length of this leadpipe. it's a monster

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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby imperialbari » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:56 pm

Image

Brand?

Model?

BBb?
Last edited by imperialbari on Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby imperialbari » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:16 pm

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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby Mark Finley » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:14 pm

imperialbari wrote:Image

Brand?

Model?

BBb?



it's a besson BBb

https://dallas.craigslist.org/sdf/msg/6163649207.html
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby imperialbari » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:28 am

Thanks!

French Besson, which likely is why I didn’t recognize it.

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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby MN_TimTuba » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:28 am

Just reading older posts over coffee break; is this germane to the discussion? - http://www.rickdenney.com/the_tuba_sound.htm I find it very interesting - 1 player, 2 different tubas, very detailed analysis. I enjoy Rick's page, and would enjoy if he'd compose further!
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby Donn » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:36 am

Occurs to me while reading "Rick's" overtone analysis, that while it's certainly fair to compare two different types of tuba in terms of whether their sound is pleasing, and why ... it might be worthwhile to occasionally recall that the tuba isn't a solo instrument, it's a component of an ensemble sound, typically the bass component. If modern tuba designs don't sound as "warm", maybe some of that is progress, depending on how it supports its role in the ensemble.

The other thing that I noticed is that he brings in another term "deep", along with "dark" (and "warm"?) I assume these are all different things, though apparently not really independent. (An anecdote on his "sounds deeper" notion - I played the same note for people on a tuba and a bass trombone, and to their ears, they were clearly different notes, the tuba note apparently being an octave lower though it most certainly was not. I don't know if that really supports his theory, but tonal analysis of those two tones might.)

Sadly, my impression is that dark/deep/warm gets even more complicated when you compare tone at widely different pitches, rather than just Bb below the staff as he does; as you go up in the range, the audible tonal effect is different even with the same frequency distributions, so I'd guess anyway.
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby jr2262euph » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:19 pm

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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby Lee Stofer » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:01 pm

There has been at least one American tuba built with a large, long leadpipe and with large-bore pistons - the J.W. Richardson model Holton BBb. Looking suspiciously like an Alexander 164 kaiser with a York piston valveset squashed into the middle, the leadpipe is essentially the same as that of an Alex 164, leading into an .810" bore 4-piston valveset. The few in existence not normal-sized in any way, but play quite well, and the sound could be considered warm.

But, back to the OP, I think that the secrets to a warm sound with a 4/4 size tuba are;

-Good player, possessing requisite skills, concept of sound, good ears and resonant sinus cavities.
-Good tuba, which is a good fit for the player, with the following;
- good metal, worked and hardened appropriately for that type of metal
- good assembly at factory, where joints are well-fitted and completely soldered, with plenty of well-placed braces
- good condition, meaning that it is clean and properly adjusted and regulated, no leaks and little, if any dents.
- good mouthpiece, meaning one that is truly a good bridge between the player and the instrument.
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby PaulMaybery » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:09 pm

I'm not sure that I understand the post. Is it referring simply to the tuba as possessing a warm quality in its sound? Or, is it about how does one achieve a warm sound, (as on say a Kaiser) on a small tuba. Actually, and we all should know this, the tuba by itself does not make the sound. But I do understand that certain older tubas do offer a "sort of foggy" sound. But I always thought that had to do more with leaky valves. At least one York Monster Eb that I had in my hands, had a charmingly warm sound, and after the valves were rebuilt it played totally differently. Very much like a more modern Eb with a tighter sound and much much more focus.

In my little "book of tricks"(And here's where I assume most of you know this) a warm sound can be generated by keeping the tongue low in the front of the mouth and tonguing behind the lower teeth. (Almost forming the sound of "Though") When the tongue is released a very wide column of air is sent over then chops and into the horn. Keeping the face and nose relaxed and of course the chest and being able to send the air without straining all add to what I call warmth of the sound. Doing the opposite of all this, even on a Kaiser or BAT may not get a warm sound, but rather a more strident tone with little gravitas or ambience. A warm sound is in my mind about 50% concept and 50% production.
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby bloke » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:57 pm

This is the topic: :)
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby Lectron » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:11 am

Knowing what you actually project when you do what you do always help.
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby Oldschooltuba » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:30 am

I also think the concept of a warm sound goes along with a "round " sound. We have to train our ears to understand the sound we want. Listen to your tuba hero, listen to the sound and imitate that sound. Now I do play a 100 year old York 6/4 and it has the sound I like. But I can get the warm sound out of almost any horn I play. I will take a students 186 to prove the point that a warm rich sound can come from their horn too. Because of that i feel that the sound in your head is as important as the horn your are playing, if not more so.
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby Alex C » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:09 am

It is said that Pop Johnson of York factory fame, used to have the receiving department suspend each sheet of brass stock that came in to the factory. He would hit it with a leather hammer and tell them to mark it for tuba bell, if it met his standards. I've heard that from two sources.
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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby imperialbari » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:27 am

Alexander are said to do a similar selection procedure.

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Re: What is the secret to a "warm" sound w/a normal-sized tu

Postby BAtlas » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:58 am

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