Mouthpiece Duplication

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shinytuba7
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Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by shinytuba7 »

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone has had a mouthpiece duplicated recently and where they had it done. I know the Houser used to offer that service, but they stopped doing that a while ago, according to their website.

Any info would be much appreciated.
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bisontuba
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by bisontuba »

YORK-aholic wrote:You might try contacting Kanstul. I seem to think they used to do it...
Jim New left Kanstul, but has opened his own shop.

http://james-r-new.com" target="_blank

Good luck!
Mark
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by shinytuba7 »

bisontuba wrote:
YORK-aholic wrote:You might try contacting Kanstul. I seem to think they used to do it...
Jim New left Kanstul, but has opened his own shop.

http://james-r-new.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Good luck!
Mark
That's good to know. Kanstul's website has a lot of areas, well basically every product but their instrument pages, marked as under construction.

As for Mr. New's shop, it looks like he only is producing trumpet mouthpieces, but I will reach out.

Anyone else know of anyone that is doing this? I would like to keep my options open.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by bort »

Stork, in Vermont.

Also, Jim is in the process of moving and setting up his shop in Utah. He told me that once he's up and running, he will be filling a lot of backorders. Didn't sound like a "no" for tuba stuff but more like "not right now."
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by Donn »

bloke wrote:Via the miracle of the worldwide web, it's now much more possible (if - ?? - your mouthpiece was ever a "production" mouthpiece) to find another just like it.
Question - given another production mouthpiece of the same model (but not necessarily made at the same time), and an average one-off copy, which would be less like the original?
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by shinytuba7 »

bloke wrote:Via the miracle of the worldwide web, it's now much more possible (if - ?? - your mouthpiece was ever a "production" mouthpiece) to find another just like it. Re-plating (a slightly worn found duplicate) is far more available than copying services.
Unfortunately, the mouthpiece, a Cooley Helleberg, is out of production and only a small batch was made, so unless I get very lucky on finding another one, duplication is my only real option. And from what I understand, there are two different versions of this mouthpiece from different production runs, which complicates things a bit more. I could be wrong however, as my info is not based on anything other than some forum posts and Googling....
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by shinytuba7 »

bort wrote:Stork, in Vermont.

Also, Jim is in the process of moving and setting up his shop in Utah. He told me that once he's up and running, he will be filling a lot of backorders. Didn't sound like a "no" for tuba stuff but more like "not right now."
Thanks for the info, I will reach out to Stork.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by Tom »

Dillon Music had a custom mouthpiece maker on staff at one time, maybe they still do. It's certainly a place you could call and ask.

Schilke did custom mouthpiece work on the side for years. Not sure if they still do. It's another place you could call and ask.

Karl Hammond was one of (the?) custom mouthpiece maker at Schilke for years. He now has his own shop. I'm not sure if he's interested in doing duplication, but it's another shop you could ask.

Stork does custom mouthpiece work and claims to do copies on request.

Warburton did a lot of custom mouthpiece work. Not sure if he's interested in doing duplication. Yet another place you could ask.

Bloke's point is certainly something to consider - that is, if the original is a production mouthpiece, it may be cheaper, easier, and less time consuming to just track down another example of that rather than having a custom duplication done.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by bort »

Side note: I used to own a Conn Geib, which was the exact mouthpiece that Lee Stofer had in his possession to copy and make his Stofer Geib. I greatly preferred the Conn to the copy. Even if they were identical in dimensions, maybe there was something to the old metal that gave a distinctive "warmth" to the sound.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by timothy42b »

https://singularityhub.com/2012/09/15/f ... d-scanner/" target="_blank

I'm not sure this is ready for prime time now, but it must have improved in five years.

Probably it should be standard practice for all of us to scan favorite mouthpieces and maintain digital copies for just in case.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by Donn »

Tom wrote:Dillon Music had a custom mouthpiece maker on staff at one time, maybe they still do. It's certainly a place you could call and ask.
...
Warburton did a lot of custom mouthpiece work. Not sure if he's interested in doing duplication. Yet another place you could ask.
I think I read here that Warburton was making the Dillon mouthpieces back in the day (years ago), so he might be the obvious suspect if they had a custom option. These days, wouldn't you just send it to China and look for the copy on ebay?
bort wrote:Even if they were identical in dimensions, maybe there was something to the old metal that gave a distinctive "warmth" to the sound.
I'm going with "not identical dimensions", somewhere in the dark part where you can't really measure, but just to unburden myself of an idea that sprang into my head - what if surface properties have something to do with it? Like, your old mouthpiece had that kind of solid, satiny surface, where the new one was weirdly slippery, and that affects the laminar flow and all that stuff (don't think I know what that means, but it does sound good!) I think the amount of spit and condensation in there is going to make this completely immaterial, but I do think there's something to rim textures.
timothy42b wrote:Probably it should be standard practice for all of us to scan favorite mouthpieces and maintain digital copies for just in case.
How am I going to get a good scan of the backbore?
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by timothy42b »

Donn wrote:
timothy42b wrote:Probably it should be standard practice for all of us to scan favorite mouthpieces and maintain digital copies for just in case.
How am I going to get a good scan of the backbore?
Well doh, slice it open, scan it, weld it back together.

Seriously, I don't know the limitations. Maybe it's possible, maybe it's not.

I can think of a work around though. Shooters sometimes use Cerrosafe to make a mold of the inside of a rifle chamber. You could probably do that, pull it out, scan it.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by Norm Pearson »

shinytuba7 wrote:Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone has had a mouthpiece duplicated recently and where they had it done. I know the Houser used to offer that service, but they stopped doing that a while ago, according to their website.

Any info would be much appreciated.
Garibaldi Musical Instruments in Paramount California.
(562) 531-8653
No website.

He uses a digital tracer and cnc lathe like Jim New did at Kanstul.
A former student of mine had them make several copies of one of my mouthpieces and it was a very close copy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2WZHvui4MI" target="_blank" target="_blank

Norm Pearson
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by timothy42b »

It seems likely to me that if you had a good digital scan of your favorite mouthpiece, and needed to replace it for whatever reason, you could email the file to anybody with a CNC lathe and get a pretty close copy.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by tubalamb »

Josef Klier made the original Cooley Hellebergs, and they will still make them on special order. I just got one in April after emailing Maximilian though their website contact form. The 'piece is labeled JK F.C. 8.0.

The pricing was very reasonable too (around $130 after shipping with the current exchange rate).

Hope this helps
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by timothy42b »

Now I'm having second thoughts about digitizing.

And maybe this applies to the standard methods.

I wouldn't dream of photocopying someone's creative work and reproducing it. That's theft, plain and simple, and hurts fellow musicians.

So how does duplicating a mouthpiece differ?
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by shinytuba7 »

tubalamb wrote:Josef Klier made the original Cooley Hellebergs, and they will still make them on special order. I just got one in April after emailing Maximilian though their website contact form. The 'piece is labeled JK F.C. 8.0.

The pricing was very reasonable too (around $130 after shipping with the current exchange rate).

Hope this helps
I did not know that. That's probably the best option for me looking at prices. I will get in touch with them. Thanks!
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by timothy42b »

Casca Grossa wrote:Does anyone have experience with 3D printing a plastic one? I have 3 expensive mouthpieces that I like a lot and have not found a plastic mouthpiece on the market that I enjoy using. I have played a few marching gigs since I started playing again and would love to make a copy of one of mine for marching gigs. Any advice would be appreciated.
Not a tuba one, but I know of people doing trombone and trumpet mouthpieces.

Check out this guy's designs

https://www.thingiverse.com/pieterbos82/designs" target="_blank

I mention him because he uses a parametric rather than explicit CAD software.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by timothy42b »

The site I linked to is Thingiverse.

It has 3D files already made for an incredible number of designs.

At the local library, I don't see the kids using CAD software to draw their own. They download these designs and print them - minions, pokemons, etc. Many libraries have free 3D printers now. In my town the middle school has one.

But you can make your own designs. TinkerCAD is online and widely used. 123Design is an Autodesk (maker of AutoCAD) product, free download. That's what I've been playing with but for me the learning curve is a bit steep. Engineering school was a lot of decades ago. Pieter uses OpenSCAD which is more useful because you can easily tweak dimensions, but it's also a bit harder to learn.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Post by pete »

timothy42b wrote:
Casca Grossa wrote:Does anyone have experience with 3D printing a plastic one? I have 3 expensive mouthpieces that I like a lot and have not found a plastic mouthpiece on the market that I enjoy using. I have played a few marching gigs since I started playing again and would love to make a copy of one of mine for marching gigs. Any advice would be appreciated.
Not a tuba one, but I know of people doing trombone and trumpet mouthpieces.

Check out this guy's designs

https://www.thingiverse.com/pieterbos82/designs" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I mention him because he uses a parametric rather than explicit CAD software.
That guy would be me. I should say it's not completely my design, I just improved the code for a smoother more detailed result, added prettier outer shapes and modeled my favorite big band bass trombone mouthpiece, with some small changes. Thingiverse lists that it's a remix of another one made by someone called ckirby.

I'm currently designing a few tuba pieces, based on shapes I found online. I made a pt-65-ish piece that plays very easily. Printed in pink :)

Now working on a more cup, less funnel shaped one, it might be like a miraphone c4 but I'm not so sure because I don't have one. They are not parametric - I could have done that, but I wanted to try a different approach.

I might share them later, or send me a message if you want them.

also a parametric trombone design, and a parametric practice mute that can be adapted for any brass instrument, see thingiverse.
The trombone design is flexible enough to also be changed into even a baroque trombone. I still need to test that :)
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