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Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby shinytuba7 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:43 am

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone has had a mouthpiece duplicated recently and where they had it done. I know the Houser used to offer that service, but they stopped doing that a while ago, according to their website.

Any info would be much appreciated.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby YORK-aholic » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:46 am

You might try contacting Kanstul. I seem to think they used to do it...
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby bisontuba » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:21 am

YORK-aholic wrote:You might try contacting Kanstul. I seem to think they used to do it...


Jim New left Kanstul, but has opened his own shop.

http://james-r-new.com

Good luck!
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby shinytuba7 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:43 am

bisontuba wrote:
YORK-aholic wrote:You might try contacting Kanstul. I seem to think they used to do it...


Jim New left Kanstul, but has opened his own shop.

http://james-r-new.com" target="_blank" target="_blank

Good luck!
Mark


That's good to know. Kanstul's website has a lot of areas, well basically every product but their instrument pages, marked as under construction.

As for Mr. New's shop, it looks like he only is producing trumpet mouthpieces, but I will reach out.

Anyone else know of anyone that is doing this? I would like to keep my options open.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby bloke » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:39 am

Via the miracle of the worldwide web, it's now much more possible (if - ?? - your mouthpiece was ever a "production" mouthpiece) to find another just like it. Re-plating (a slightly worn found duplicate) is far more available than copying services.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby bort » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:47 am

Stork, in Vermont.

Also, Jim is in the process of moving and setting up his shop in Utah. He told me that once he's up and running, he will be filling a lot of backorders. Didn't sound like a "no" for tuba stuff but more like "not right now."
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby Donn » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:56 am

bloke wrote:Via the miracle of the worldwide web, it's now much more possible (if - ?? - your mouthpiece was ever a "production" mouthpiece) to find another just like it.


Question - given another production mouthpiece of the same model (but not necessarily made at the same time), and an average one-off copy, which would be less like the original?
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby shinytuba7 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:00 am

bloke wrote:Via the miracle of the worldwide web, it's now much more possible (if - ?? - your mouthpiece was ever a "production" mouthpiece) to find another just like it. Re-plating (a slightly worn found duplicate) is far more available than copying services.


Unfortunately, the mouthpiece, a Cooley Helleberg, is out of production and only a small batch was made, so unless I get very lucky on finding another one, duplication is my only real option. And from what I understand, there are two different versions of this mouthpiece from different production runs, which complicates things a bit more. I could be wrong however, as my info is not based on anything other than some forum posts and Googling....
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby shinytuba7 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:02 am

bort wrote:Stork, in Vermont.

Also, Jim is in the process of moving and setting up his shop in Utah. He told me that once he's up and running, he will be filling a lot of backorders. Didn't sound like a "no" for tuba stuff but more like "not right now."


Thanks for the info, I will reach out to Stork.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby Tom » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:06 am

Dillon Music had a custom mouthpiece maker on staff at one time, maybe they still do. It's certainly a place you could call and ask.

Schilke did custom mouthpiece work on the side for years. Not sure if they still do. It's another place you could call and ask.

Karl Hammond was one of (the?) custom mouthpiece maker at Schilke for years. He now has his own shop. I'm not sure if he's interested in doing duplication, but it's another shop you could ask.

Stork does custom mouthpiece work and claims to do copies on request.

Warburton did a lot of custom mouthpiece work. Not sure if he's interested in doing duplication. Yet another place you could ask.

Bloke's point is certainly something to consider - that is, if the original is a production mouthpiece, it may be cheaper, easier, and less time consuming to just track down another example of that rather than having a custom duplication done.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby bort » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:25 am

Side note: I used to own a Conn Geib, which was the exact mouthpiece that Lee Stofer had in his possession to copy and make his Stofer Geib. I greatly preferred the Conn to the copy. Even if they were identical in dimensions, maybe there was something to the old metal that gave a distinctive "warmth" to the sound.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby timothy42b » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:42 am

https://singularityhub.com/2012/09/15/f ... d-scanner/

I'm not sure this is ready for prime time now, but it must have improved in five years.

Probably it should be standard practice for all of us to scan favorite mouthpieces and maintain digital copies for just in case.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby Donn » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:19 am

Tom wrote:Dillon Music had a custom mouthpiece maker on staff at one time, maybe they still do. It's certainly a place you could call and ask.
...
Warburton did a lot of custom mouthpiece work. Not sure if he's interested in doing duplication. Yet another place you could ask.


I think I read here that Warburton was making the Dillon mouthpieces back in the day (years ago), so he might be the obvious suspect if they had a custom option. These days, wouldn't you just send it to China and look for the copy on ebay?

bort wrote:Even if they were identical in dimensions, maybe there was something to the old metal that gave a distinctive "warmth" to the sound.


I'm going with "not identical dimensions", somewhere in the dark part where you can't really measure, but just to unburden myself of an idea that sprang into my head - what if surface properties have something to do with it? Like, your old mouthpiece had that kind of solid, satiny surface, where the new one was weirdly slippery, and that affects the laminar flow and all that stuff (don't think I know what that means, but it does sound good!) I think the amount of spit and condensation in there is going to make this completely immaterial, but I do think there's something to rim textures.

timothy42b wrote:Probably it should be standard practice for all of us to scan favorite mouthpieces and maintain digital copies for just in case.


How am I going to get a good scan of the backbore?
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby timothy42b » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:30 am

Donn wrote:
timothy42b wrote:Probably it should be standard practice for all of us to scan favorite mouthpieces and maintain digital copies for just in case.


How am I going to get a good scan of the backbore?


Well doh, slice it open, scan it, weld it back together.

Seriously, I don't know the limitations. Maybe it's possible, maybe it's not.

I can think of a work around though. Shooters sometimes use Cerrosafe to make a mold of the inside of a rifle chamber. You could probably do that, pull it out, scan it.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby Norm Pearson » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:36 am

shinytuba7 wrote:Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone has had a mouthpiece duplicated recently and where they had it done. I know the Houser used to offer that service, but they stopped doing that a while ago, according to their website.

Any info would be much appreciated.


Garibaldi Musical Instruments in Paramount California.
(562) 531-8653
No website.

He uses a digital tracer and cnc lathe like Jim New did at Kanstul.
A former student of mine had them make several copies of one of my mouthpieces and it was a very close copy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2WZHvui4MI" target="_blank

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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby timothy42b » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:43 am

It seems likely to me that if you had a good digital scan of your favorite mouthpiece, and needed to replace it for whatever reason, you could email the file to anybody with a CNC lathe and get a pretty close copy.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby tubalamb » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:49 am

Josef Klier made the original Cooley Hellebergs, and they will still make them on special order. I just got one in April after emailing Maximilian though their website contact form. The 'piece is labeled JK F.C. 8.0.

The pricing was very reasonable too (around $130 after shipping with the current exchange rate).

Hope this helps
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby timothy42b » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:57 am

Now I'm having second thoughts about digitizing.

And maybe this applies to the standard methods.

I wouldn't dream of photocopying someone's creative work and reproducing it. That's theft, plain and simple, and hurts fellow musicians.

So how does duplicating a mouthpiece differ?
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby Casca Grossa » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:54 pm

Does anyone have experience with 3D printing a plastic one? I have 3 expensive mouthpieces that I like a lot and have not found a plastic mouthpiece on the market that I enjoy using. I have played a few marching gigs since I started playing again and would love to make a copy of one of mine for marching gigs. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby shinytuba7 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:10 pm

tubalamb wrote:Josef Klier made the original Cooley Hellebergs, and they will still make them on special order. I just got one in April after emailing Maximilian though their website contact form. The 'piece is labeled JK F.C. 8.0.

The pricing was very reasonable too (around $130 after shipping with the current exchange rate).

Hope this helps


I did not know that. That's probably the best option for me looking at prices. I will get in touch with them. Thanks!
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