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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby timothy42b » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:59 pm

Casca Grossa wrote:Does anyone have experience with 3D printing a plastic one? I have 3 expensive mouthpieces that I like a lot and have not found a plastic mouthpiece on the market that I enjoy using. I have played a few marching gigs since I started playing again and would love to make a copy of one of mine for marching gigs. Any advice would be appreciated.


Not a tuba one, but I know of people doing trombone and trumpet mouthpieces.

Check out this guy's designs

https://www.thingiverse.com/pieterbos82/designs

I mention him because he uses a parametric rather than explicit CAD software.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby the elephant » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:05 pm

If you want a really accurate copy you need to understand that tuba mouthpieces can be stimulated into reproducing asexually.

Mix up about a quart of the following solution:

• 7 parts Pabst Blue Ribbon (flat is better)
• 3 parts pepperoni grease (for this project you will need about a dozen large pizzas to wring out)
• 1 part baking soda (to keep things fresh)

Mix this with one package of Knox gelatin and pour into a Pyrex mixing bowl. Allow the mouthpiece to stay in this mix until the gelatin sets. Cover in aluminum foil and freeze for three weeks (to allow for full cellular mitosis). Remove from freezer, do NOT unwrap. Allow to thaw for 48 hours on your kitchen counter. Unwrap, dump into sink and dig out your mouthpiece and its new twin. It will be an exact duplicate down to the cellular level.

Only this method will allow you to blame yourself for mistakes rather than some suspect "copy" ginned out in some guy's garage. "Well, I blew that piece. Must be this lousy copy of my mouthpiece. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket."

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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby Casca Grossa » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:28 pm

timothy42b wrote:
Casca Grossa wrote:Does anyone have experience with 3D printing a plastic one? I have 3 expensive mouthpieces that I like a lot and have not found a plastic mouthpiece on the market that I enjoy using. I have played a few marching gigs since I started playing again and would love to make a copy of one of mine for marching gigs. Any advice would be appreciated.


Not a tuba one, but I know of people doing trombone and trumpet mouthpieces.

Check out this guy's designs

https://www.thingiverse.com/pieterbos82/designs" target="_blank

I mention him because he uses a parametric rather than explicit CAD software.


Thanks!!!
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby timothy42b » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:37 am

The site I linked to is Thingiverse.

It has 3D files already made for an incredible number of designs.

At the local library, I don't see the kids using CAD software to draw their own. They download these designs and print them - minions, pokemons, etc. Many libraries have free 3D printers now. In my town the middle school has one.

But you can make your own designs. TinkerCAD is online and widely used. 123Design is an Autodesk (maker of AutoCAD) product, free download. That's what I've been playing with but for me the learning curve is a bit steep. Engineering school was a lot of decades ago. Pieter uses OpenSCAD which is more useful because you can easily tweak dimensions, but it's also a bit harder to learn.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby pete » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:08 pm

timothy42b wrote:
Casca Grossa wrote:Does anyone have experience with 3D printing a plastic one? I have 3 expensive mouthpieces that I like a lot and have not found a plastic mouthpiece on the market that I enjoy using. I have played a few marching gigs since I started playing again and would love to make a copy of one of mine for marching gigs. Any advice would be appreciated.


Not a tuba one, but I know of people doing trombone and trumpet mouthpieces.

Check out this guy's designs

https://www.thingiverse.com/pieterbos82/designs" target="_blank" target="_blank

I mention him because he uses a parametric rather than explicit CAD software.


That guy would be me. I should say it's not completely my design, I just improved the code for a smoother more detailed result, added prettier outer shapes and modeled my favorite big band bass trombone mouthpiece, with some small changes. Thingiverse lists that it's a remix of another one made by someone called ckirby.

I'm currently designing a few tuba pieces, based on shapes I found online. I made a pt-65-ish piece that plays very easily. Printed in pink :)

Now working on a more cup, less funnel shaped one, it might be like a miraphone c4 but I'm not so sure because I don't have one. They are not parametric - I could have done that, but I wanted to try a different approach.

I might share them later, or send me a message if you want them.

also a parametric trombone design, and a parametric practice mute that can be adapted for any brass instrument, see thingiverse.
The trombone design is flexible enough to also be changed into even a baroque trombone. I still need to test that :)
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby Alex C » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:05 am

For what it is worth, a duplicated mouthpiece will probably not play like the original. I've had the "big boys" of the mouthpiece world duplicate mouthpieces and they are vastly different animals. If you can get the same mouthpiece blank to start, you have a chance. The might even get the rim right.

The cup is a challenge but since it is so big, they usually copy that pretty well.

The throat is quite difficult to copy exactly. We are not just talking about a drill size, the length of the throat is critical, as is the possibility there is a taper within the throat with a different taper than the backbore. The entrance to the throat is also critical and every mouthpiece maker has his own way of cutting that. As well as the exit from the throat. It is relatively easy to copy a backbore (not easy, but relatively) yet the guy running the cutting machine will often look and say, "That looks about like our #4 bit," when it is something else entirely.

I have had one mouthpiece copied exactly. It was a euphonium mouthpiece. Dick Barth (of BMB design, production and sales) looked at a mouthpiece I loved and said (flippantly I might add), "Oh, I can make that for you. I'll send a copy to you in a couple of weeks." He did and it played as identically as possible. He took no measurements, just eyeballed and made it from memory. Yes, he nailed the rim, cup, throat and backbore. The man is a genius!
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby Norm Pearson » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:24 pm

Alex C wrote:For what it is worth, a duplicated mouthpiece will probably not play like the original. I've had the "big boys" of the mouthpiece world duplicate mouthpieces and they are vastly different animals.


Exact copies are difficult for many reason. I was a custom mouthpiece maker for Joe Marcinkiewicz in the early 80's. On the rare occasion I would nail a copy there was one more obstacle, the buffing room! I can't tell you how many close copies came back as different mouthpieces by over zealous buffers. Brass is soft and it is easy to over buff especially the bite. Most of the copies we made were approximations of the original.

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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby pete » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:56 am

Norm Pearson wrote:
Alex C wrote:For what it is worth, a duplicated mouthpiece will probably not play like the original. I've had the "big boys" of the mouthpiece world duplicate mouthpieces and they are vastly different animals.


Exact copies are difficult for many reason. I was a custom mouthpiece maker for Joe Marcinkiewicz in the early 80's. On the rare occasion I would nail a copy there was one more obstacle, the buffing room! I can't tell you how many close copies came back as different mouthpieces by over zealous buffers. Brass is soft and it is easy to over buff especially the bite. Most of the copies we made were approximations of the original.

Norm


Any idea on what kind of dimensional accuracy you need for a good copy?

Using Cnc lathes or sls metal printers it should be possible to achieve very precise results - if you have a way to measure the mouthpiece that is. With desktop plastic 3d printers you can achieve about +- 0.05-0.1mm accuracy if you calibrate it well and don't print too fast, but since you need some kind of sanding or chemical smoothing at least for the rim it's a bit more tricky than just printing to get consistent results.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby bloke » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:47 am

A "good" copy depends on (briefly) skill and attention to detail...just like "good" anything else.

Copies are far more expensive than production mouthpieces, and many makers do not offer this service.

Again...
If your mouthpiece is production (no matter how obscure) the miracles of "discussion lists and eBay" can help you find a same-model 'piece.
Last edited by bloke on Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby nworbekim » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:16 am

a couple of years ago, one of my groups hosted a Brass Day for the high school students in the area. we had vendors and demonstrators from area stores in and one of them was a mouthpiece company from Lexington, Ky. i think the name was pickets/pickens/picketts??? i can't remember exactly how to spell it.

one of the services they offered besides the manufacture of custom mouthpieces was duplications. i can't remember how much it cost, but at the time it struck me as being quite expensive.
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby hrender » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:50 pm

nworbekim wrote:a couple of years ago, one of my groups hosted a Brass Day for the high school students in the area. we had vendors and demonstrators from area stores in and one of them was a mouthpiece company from Lexington, Ky. i think the name was pickets/pickens/picketts??? i can't remember exactly how to spell it.

one of the services they offered besides the manufacture of custom mouthpieces was duplications. i can't remember how much it cost, but at the time it struck me as being quite expensive.


http://www.pickettbrass.com/
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Re: Mouthpiece Duplication

Postby nworbekim » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:44 pm

hrender wrote:
nworbekim wrote:a couple of years ago, one of my groups hosted a Brass Day for the high school students in the area. we had vendors and demonstrators from area stores in and one of them was a mouthpiece company from Lexington, Ky. i think the name was pickets/pickens/picketts??? i can't remember exactly how to spell it.

one of the services they offered besides the manufacture of custom mouthpieces was duplications. i can't remember how much it cost, but at the time it struck me as being quite expensive.


http://www.pickettbrass.com/


that's the place....
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