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Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby bloke » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:26 am

...so I've often wondered why I've never played this with a symphony orchestra...

...so I started looking around on the web, and only see it for wind band.

Did he never do a symphony orchestra version of this piece...??

If I'm correct about this, are there any licensed string parts where someone grabbed the clarinet-choir parts from the band arrangement, and moved those parts over to strings?

For you copyright experts, how egregious of an act would it be for someone to BUY the band arrangement, write some string parts to go with it, and - if there is a "performance for profit" fee associated with this arrangement (??) pay the regular fee per customary ?

:arrow: I asked some questions about 42" TV's and fancy mounting brackets in "General Chatter", if anyone is willing to respond to my questions there.
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby the elephant » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:31 am

Yes, it is the original, and very commonly played. The band version came later. (Or so I have been told.) It is rental only and available only from his library, which does not advertise anywhere; they don't need to. He did a ton of stuff for orchestra. Tico-Tico No Fuba comes to mind, actually...

EDIT: Here you go. Just scroll down, alphabetically.

http://www.carmendragon.com/index.php?page=search&type=dig&search=a

http://www.carmendragon.com/audio/athb4.mp3
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby bloke » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:36 am

thnx. ' sure sounds better than the band version... :oops:
#shimmer

...I guess a lot of folks who are putting on free patriotic concerts don't want to pony up rental fees.
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby fenne1ca » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:41 am

Is it just the orchestral parts that are rental-only, then? Both units I've been assigned to thus far in my career owned their band parts outright.
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby Tampaworth » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:28 pm

Maybe everyone else knows, but I recently learned that Carmen Dragon was Daryl Dragon's (the Captain from Captain and Tenille) father
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby bloke » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:34 pm

Tampaworth wrote:Maybe everyone else knows, but I recently learned that Carmen Dragon was Daryl Dragon's (the Captain from Captain and Tenille) father


yep...Everyone else knows.
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby the elephant » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:57 pm

Yep, pretty much...

His orchestra stuff are his originals (mostly) and the band stuff came later. Bands generally have minuscule library budgets, so they normally will not rent stuff, so for a long time people who did an orchestra arrangement and then released a band transcription of that would sell both, but later on when it was noted that professional orchestras tend to have large music budgets these sellers stopped selling their orchestra stuff, stopped printing it (for the most part) and started up rental libraries. Old orchestras who already owned a lot of this stuff were legally grandfathered in, so we have a whole mess of rental-only stuff in our library. We still have to rent probably about ten grand in music each season, though, and that is being cheap.

Note that in renting the older stuff (like Gershwin) the families stopped allowing parts to be made, so rentals of these are now falling into such disrepair that you will get notes in your folder of xeroxed "hate mail" from the manager of the rental library explaining this and that the fine for them having to replace lost or incomplete parts is now hundreds of dollars. My last time using a rental American in Paris the note said the part would cost me $485 if I messed it up or lost it. Each player got this, since this was a small, pickup orchestra with a tiny budget. The rental of this piece wiped out their budget for music for that season, so they were absolutely terrified that some of use would trash our parts with erasures, tears, lost pages, etc.

The MSO has a sufficient budget to cover stuff like this, but has warned some individuals who sub with us regularly and are prone to failing to turn in folders after a concert series is finished. I think we may be docking people pay if we incur a fine from their numbered and assigned part. Good! These kids want to be pros. They need to learn that it is a business.

</rantlet and attempt at clarification>
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby Rick F » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:59 am

Carmen Dragon's arr. of "America the Beautiful" is the absolute best one for wind band. Did not know that Carmen Dragon is/was the father of Daryl Dragon. Thanks for that Tampaworth.
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby thejester10276 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:22 pm

Rick F wrote:Carmen Dragon's arr. of "America the Beautiful" is the absolute best one for wind band.


+1
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby Jim Brewer » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:18 pm

Our band just performed this last night. It,s a great piece for band. I haven't played the orchestral version.
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby tyrell1111 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:11 am

If you get a chance, Iowa All-State Chorus sings this with the band every other year. Here is a link to the 2013 chorus and band. Not everyday you hear a 600 piece chorus and 200+ piece band! I think it's pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7-XQeG6BGQ
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby tubapix » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:30 am

tyrell1111 wrote:If you get a chance, Iowa All-State Chorus sings this with the band every other year. Here is a link to the 2013 chorus and band. Not everyday you hear a 600 piece chorus and 200+ piece band! I think it's pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7-XQeG6BGQ" target="_blank




I agree, that was a very cool treat! 8)
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby opus37 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:32 pm

My city band plays this version of America the Beautiful each year on the 4th of July. We start by having the audience sing without the band, then a drum roll and the band plays this version. I didn't realize how special it was until I read this discussion. I did share this background about the arranger which did fascinate the band. Next year we will share it with the audience.
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby bloke » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:26 pm

Student bands always seem to have trouble finding that Db major chord (intonation) at the end of the intro...I believe (after playing all of those lines) it may catch them by surprise. i.e. whoops: Intonation matters here!

The D.C. Navy Band (during 'nam - *when orchestra jobs didn't pay crap, and military band jobs kept guys out of 'nam) came to my high school and played a concert when I was in the 11th grade (1973). The turnout was disgraceful...well under 100 people.
The band played this piece memorably. The horns...wow. Brian Bowman was in that band (satin silver Besson) and solo'ed with the band. Memphians missed something special that night.

moving forward c. a year in time...
In the 12th grade in my "all-state" band, we played that too-often-played Wilhousky arr. (muted trumpets at the beginning) of Battle Hymn of the Republic. I believe the orchestra was brought back out, and all three ensembles (band/orchestra/chorus) performed it as a finale. It was a bit of a slap in the face, even as late as 1974. July 4th (the fall of Vicksburg) was still - at that time - not being celebrated in the old Confederacy. Arnald Gabriel, possibly, was not aware...The audience was polite, and applauded.

even more stuff unrelated to the main topic:
At that time, Tennessee's all-state (TMEA thing) alternated between Memphis, Nashville, and (maybe...??) Chattanooga. That year, it was Memphis' turn. If you've ever heard of the Peabody Hotel and it's "Skyway" and "Plantation Roof" (top floor), that's where we rehearsed. We also auditioned for chairs in some of the hotel rooms. The concert was held in the (sadly) now-bulldozed Ellis Auditorium...only a few blocks away. During the rehearsals, Col. Gabriel was just about straight ahead (as the picture below is oriented). I also remember one of the flautists drying off after a shower (mid-afternoon break) in a hotel room across the street as some of the rest of us were enjoying the view on the adjacent-to-the-Skyway Plantation Roof (where the famous Peabody ducks live each night, fwiw). Not known to be an exhibitionist, I have no idea what they were thinking - not closing the street-facing curtains to their room. That person has been pictured on this discussion list by me in the past. I will not mention their name, nor re-link the picture.

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Outside the stage door of this old auditorium, I actually (the Philadelphia Orchestra being on tour) caught Eugene Ormandy (in his tails...stepping out of a cab...stumbling on a double-curb he obvious did not notice) and kept him from falling on his face (under than small awning in the extreme left of the b&w picture). He was quite short, fwiw. I was 17 years old, and had parked on the Mississippi Riverbank's cobblestones (to save a 75 cent parking fee).
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Were Memphis as interesting, affordable, and safe as it was then, I would have never moved out here to blokeplace®.
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*Adjusted for inflation - just fwiw, the "core" of the Memphis Symphony is paid the same as the (all: per service) musicians were paid at that time. As tax rates are now much higher, they were actually paid a good bit more. :|
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Re: Dragon arr. "America the Beautiful" w/chorus

Postby Alex C » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:39 am

I played the orchestral version with one of the freeway philharmonics back in the 90's. The conductor claimed friendship with Dragon and we played a number of his works in manuscript. I think the history Wade gave is good, I am just verifying the music existed.
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