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OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk, then

Postby barry grrr-ero » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:17 pm

. . . then why does nobody ever sell theirs?
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby KiltieTuba » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:39 am

Sell? Why sell when you can scrap?
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby kmorgancraw » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:01 am

The market for cimbassos is pretty small I imagine, so there isn't nearly the volume of them out there to sold used. Only a tuba player feeling rich enough, while owning at least two tubas already is going to throw even more money at a cimbasso, that they might only use once or twice a year in performance. So if a tuba player invests that much money into another instrument that will likely never pay for itself, they're probably pretty committed to overcoming any shortcomings the instrument has and making it work.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Mark » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:59 am

A lot of opera companies own cimbasssos.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby hup_d_dup » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:11 am

kmorgancraw wrote: So if a tuba player invests that much money into another instrument that will likely never pay for itself, they're probably pretty committed to overcoming any shortcomings the instrument has and making it work.


People generally do not buy an instrument so that it will pay for itself. Doesn't matter if it is cheap or expensive, common or exotic.

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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby mctuba1 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:28 pm

barry grrr-ero wrote:. . . then why does nobody ever sell theirs?



Who said they were supposed to be junk? Just like anything else there are good ones and no so good ones.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby royjohn » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:47 am

Tom McGrady wrote: Who said they were supposed to be junk? Just like anything else there are good ones and no so good ones."


So, Tom, do you sell one?

My local small city opera company is happy to be solvent and to be able to put 45 guys, including a bass trombone, in the pit for an opera. Last year we gave Boito's Mephistopheles and cut an entire act, but we had a near-naked devil who doubles his operatic career as a personal trainer (he was ripped!) and a chorus of over 100 for the climactic scenes, and the theater was full, so what's not to like? This year we'll do Aida (people are still talking about the last time, the elephant poop was not cleaned up during the procession scene [the circus was in town, so we had an elephant] and the entire chorus crossed the stage three times in different costumes because it was so small) and Turandot and maybe we'll cut Ping, Pang and Pong completely out of the latter, but at least the public will see opera and the company will survive to play another day. NOW if a musician should show up with a cimbasso for Verdi instead of a bass trombone, I doubt anyone would object, and in five or ten years, perhaps it would actually be accepted or required. The pace of musical revival goes slowly, but it does move along. Perhaps I will love long enough to see an entire 19th century orchestra with period brass and woodwinds, etc., at A=435 or so.

One can always hope, and then there's Rossini with a serpent or ophicleide...
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby hup_d_dup » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:59 am

Chris Olka's review of a Dillon cimbasso:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEa4VqsXBug

Advance to about 7:45. Chris talks about the practical applications for cimbassi.

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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby the elephant » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:49 am

Barry, I think you assume that there are far more of these in existence than there actually are. I have played for a living since 1985. I play opera on a semi-regular basis. I have played in an orchestra full time since 1993. I have never actually *seen* a cimbasso. They are not common at all, and seem to exist mostly here on TubeNet in photographic form. I would bet money that there are fewer than 350 in the entire US. Probably more like 200 total. Just a guess, but I bet I am not far from the mark. Perhaps a TubeNet poll is in order? (And we all know how useful *those* are...)
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:31 am

It's a myth.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bort » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:34 am

In modern use, outside of operas and movie soundtracks, they are kind of a gimmick, IMO. Give me a cimbasso playing the piccolo solo in Stars and Stripes, and I think my head will explode. :)
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:44 am

gimmick... :|
Tell me.
Which of these looks more like a "gimmick"?

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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Donn » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:52 am

bloke wrote:Which of these looks more like a "gimmick"?


Maybe it isn't the looks.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Kirley » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:05 am

Yep, the "detachable" bottom bow thing that Yamaha tried out... total gimmick.
: )
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:24 am

The point is that most everything that isn't an absolute necessity is a "gimmick".
This entire site is all about gimmickry.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby MaryAnn » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:20 pm

well, I'd love to own one....I have a bass tbone but holding it up for very long is beyond my physical capability. And I'd love to play the bass tbone part, just in general. One of these, sitting on the floor and with rotaries, would probably be my best friend.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby barry grrr-ero » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:32 pm

Yep. My thought exactly. I believe that Horn Guys (Ferguson's) will receive a Cerveny 632 cimbasso this month or so. But they don't come cheap! I'll still go down to give it a test drive. If I fall in love with it, I'll rob a local bank and come back.

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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Jay Bertolet » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:36 pm

I agree with Elephant, I bet there are less than 200 in the US. These things are not common at all. Even more rare is the combination of a cimbasso and a player who actually knows how to use it. It's not plug and play.

These things pay for themselves rather quickly. Especially if there's a local opera company to work with, once they hear it in Verdi or the like, they'll never settle for anything else. I've been playing mine for 15 years and I've literally never had someone express anything but love for the sound and how it fits in Verdi, etc. Just be sure you play test one first, though that only works if you have some experience with them in the first place and have the knack for how to approach the horn. They are also very mouthpiece sensitive (at least mine is, it took me years to find the right combo).

Once you find the right one, you may find yourself always looking for opportunities to use it! They can be very intoxicating.
My opinion for what it's worth...


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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby MaryAnn » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:06 pm

Fascinating what you say about learning to play it....what is different about it, that would make it more fussy, than, say, a (french) horn, which certainly has to be babied beyond all redemption in order to get it to make beautiful? And I think about strings, where there are really quite a few (yes, non-pro) players out there who have facility all over the place but never were taught how to get the box to resonate in the way it can, and then you hear someone with skill play an instrument that sounded like hell before, and they can make it speak....?
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby barry grrr-ero » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:37 pm

Mouthpiece wise, I think you could work with Doug Eliott until you came up with the right combo. Bloke would probably great for that too. Obviously, it's easier to make small adjustments with a slide (trombone), but then you have to learn the d__n slide and all the alternate positions with triggers, etc. Life is too short.

I would want one of these for a second level community college jazz band. I have no desire to play ANY Verdi opera. I played TONS of Verdi transcriptions in my high school and local municipal band, and that's enough for me. I do like the overture (prelude?) to the "Sicilian Vespers". I'm rambling. Jazz is what I'd like to do more of.
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