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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby barry grrr-ero » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:59 pm

. . . which is why I like 5-2-4 with the 2nd valve kicker thrown just a smidge. Second valve tuning is a huge help down low.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby toobagrowl » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:47 pm

bloke wrote:2-3-4 is nearly always a flat combination.


I dunno, I guess everyone is different. But the 2-3-4 combo is nearly spot-on for me (low G on Eb tuba, low E on CC tuba, etc). If anything, only a hair flat.
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Cimbassos. Yeah.....I've only played on one (M-W), and it was fun and loud :!:
Kind-of a specialized instrument. But I would prolly just use my 2-trigger bass bone if I needed that type of sound, though.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:50 pm

Fifty years ago - in the world of tuba playing - "within ten cents" was considered "in tune" by many.
I've had to raise my standards as everyone's else have been prompted to be raised.

...the thing that I believe is behind expectations of closer-and-closer to perfectly in-tune pitches? (even "slightly flat low e's)
It's the thing many of us claim to not respect and to hold in comtempt: "auto-tune", and music consumers being accustomed to hearing perfect intonation anywhere/everywhere.

Go listen to some old symphonic recordings made in the 1950's and 1960's. Often, the tuning (sure, "big five" or whatever) was "colorful". :|

bloke "tuning and time: They'll (nope, not 'out-of-vogue equipment' or 'meeyoozicalitee") prompt 'the hook' every time at auditions...and 'hearing one's instrument play the same pitches not-quite-right over-and-over' eventually teaches players' ears that not-quite-right is ...well...right."
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby barry grrr-ero » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:11 pm

When I conduct, which - granted - is not very often, 'tuning' is down my list of priorities. Talking about tuning is meaningless UNTIL everyone is playing TOGETHER with the right notes, right rhythms, right dynamics and right balances. When people LISTEN and get these main priorities correct, they'll generally adjust their tuning in the process. Blowing correctly in a semi-relaxed manner fixes much of it too. As concerts go on and the air gets warmer, the pitch starts climbing. Many players need to be reminded of that fact as well.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:18 pm

The two basics, tuning and time, will often take care of most issues regarding balance, ensemble, dynamics, and other related issues.

If people are skilled enough and paying enough attention to get those basic two, they'll probably come very close to (if not hitting them "on the nose") the rest of those things. Many are not skilled nor paying enough attention to get those basic two. Further, many play "inside themselves" and only listen to their own resonance (yes only "resonance", and neither time nor tuning) and rarely the aggregate.

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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby barry grrr-ero » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:47 pm

Yes, but do you have a blunt snout?

https://annoyzview.files.wordpress.com/ ... sphinx.jpg" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Thanks to Paul Mayberry's encouraging words, I'm gonna at least 'test drive' that Cerveney 632, if and when it arrives in L.A. If I fall in love, I'll be asking every member of Tubenet to make a $20 donation to the grrr-ero cimbasso fund. I promise I won't play the "Stars & Stripes" at you . . . maybe "Stella by Starlight" or "I'll Remember April" instead.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:10 pm

"Chunks of Rock Fell off my nose on to Alabama" by Phil Napoleon

bloke "Youse sphinx." :x
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby quesonegro » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:03 am

Mark wrote:
bloke wrote:I will reemphasize that the Rudy copy that Tom is willing to order is very easy to play in tune (minor #1 slide trigger movements).


What fingering are you using for the A three lines below the staff?


I use 1,2,4 with trigger to make it flatter...have it tuned to give me Pedal Bb on 1,4

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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:53 am

Just fwiw...Many of those Jb trigger mechanisms feature hinge screws that are too long.
If the excess length is trimmed from the screw, the screw will no longer bump against the #1 slide tubing, and the trigger range is then extended by an amount that makes cutting the screw worth the small amount of trouble required.

fwiw, I have not found a too-short combination (trigger or no) that is any less too-sharp than 2-3-4 is too-flat. Everyone makes their own judgements.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Mark » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:46 am

bloke wrote:fwiw, I have not found a too-short combination (trigger or no) that is any less too-sharp than 2-3-4 is too-flat. Everyone makes their own judgements.


I suspect that the cimbasso that Mattis is using is a much better quality.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:53 pm

It may very well be.
My experience, though (from crappy to sublime) is that mathematics, mostly, dominates in that range.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Mark Finley » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:09 pm

I wonder if a cimbasso might catch on a little better if it didn't look like something out of a Dr Suess book? Maybe a redesign is in order? Something you can set in a chair, still bell forward, but wrapped more like a traditional tuba? Essentially a tuba pea shooter
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Donn » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:40 pm

Have I not seen them in a bell-up, top valve configuration, looking just like a starved tuba? I think the one I saw [a photo of] was Orsi. Bell up might be a good thing for cimbasso, and it's the direction you want to go for less weird appearance.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Mark » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:44 pm

bloke wrote:My experience, though (from crappy to sublime) is that mathematics, mostly, dominates in that range.


He might have a much better trigger on the first-valve slide and with a longer throw.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby PaulMaybery » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:50 pm

My take is that the Cimbasso, as a directional instrument, needs to have its bell directed in the same line as the other 3 trombones. When you think about it, it is rather strange that the tuba in the opera pit is the only instrument directed up and out into the house.
Actually I find the shape of most modern Cimbassos (valved contra bass trombone) rather magnificent and somewhat imposing.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:35 pm

Mark wrote:
bloke wrote:My experience, though (from crappy to sublime) is that mathematics, mostly, dominates in that range.


He might have a much better trigger on the first-valve slide and with a longer throw.


good point.

As to "pieces of junk", some of them are built junky, sound great, and can easily be played in tune. Some others are built better, and cannot be played in tune. I've not yet tried type #3 (built well / can be played in tune. I'm hoping that mine (after replacing half of it) might be one of those.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby hup_d_dup » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:36 am

58mark wrote:I wonder if a cimbasso might catch on a little better if it didn't look like something out of a Dr Suess book?


In fact, at the recent Tuba/Euphonium PlayIN in Philadelphia Carol Jantsch introduced the sole cimbasso to the audience as "that Dr. Suess-looking thing."

I think the more worrisome problem of the configuration is that the two long lever arms make the center of the instrument vulnerable to stress incidents.

58mark wrote:Maybe a redesign is in order? Something you can set in a chair, still bell forward, but wrapped more like a traditional tuba? Essentially a tuba pea shooter


Essentially a bass trombonium.

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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:35 am

:lol:

Just because all of us are accustomed to looking at sousaphones (~THE~ MOTHER-OF-ALL "Dr. Seuss-looking" things), it's the cimbasso, then, that is more humorous in appearance...?? :P

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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby Bob Kolada » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:15 am

http://www.tubaforum.it/foto/G&PMaggio2008/CimbassoNew.JPG


I have something smaller but similar-
http://i.imgur.com/iVTcNKxh.jpg
I think something in this format with a recording bell would be interesting.
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Re: OK, if cimbassos are suppose to be such pieces of junk,

Postby bloke » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:19 am

fixed.

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