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Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:51 am
by bbocaner
I wrote a review of my new Wessex Wyvern CC tuba on another forum. Since there isn't a heck of a lot of information about this model online yet, I thought I'd share it here as well.

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthread ... ern-review" target="_blank

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:14 am
by bort
Wow... that's a good read! You should copy and paste the text here for posterity, I am certain that people will be interested to read it.

Maybe also post again after a few months to say what you think?

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:12 pm
by MaryAnn
I'm really curious what you hear in terms of the difference between gold brass and yellow brass. I remember reading some things Dave Werden said about euphonium bells and preferring the yellow brass over gold, but cannot remember what he said.

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:27 pm
by bbocaner
MaryAnn wrote:I'm really curious what you hear in terms of the difference between gold brass and yellow brass. I remember reading some things Dave Werden said about euphonium bells and preferring the yellow brass over gold, but cannot remember what he said.
It's hard to define and it's more about the way the instrument feels to me than the way it sounds. I think different people experience it different ways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it" target="_blank

:)

However... in general, I find gold brass bells (not necessarily other parts of the instruments) to have a sort of fuzzy feel to them, a lack of clarity and center, especially in delicate articulations, but also detectable in held notes.

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:14 am
by DCottrell
"important: interior dimensions (instruments, mouthpieces)
of less or negligible importance - within reason: (materials)"

Arthur Benade agrees with you.

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:12 pm
by bbocaner
bloke wrote: important: interior dimensions (instruments, mouthpieces)
of less or negligible importance - within reason: (materials)
I agree with you that dimensions are *more* important, but not that material is of negligible importance.

I have gone over to Shires and Rath (Edwards works, too, although I haven't been there myself) and tried out the exact same mouthpiece, slide, leadpipe, vale section, and tuning slide with different bells of the exact same gauge and construction but made of different materials and get markedly different results. Granted, maybe not as much out in the hall as what the player feels, but it makes a big difference. And maybe it makes a bigger difference on trombone which is a much different instrument than euphonium or tuba, but the difference is there. Yes, there are variations from bell to bell even of the identical model, but there is a certain feel that gold brass has which is different from the feel of yellow brass or red brass; and it is consistent across heavy bells and light bells and two piece vs one piece and so on.

Vanishing returns, gilding the lily, etc.; but it isn't negligible.

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:13 pm
by bbocaner
I didn't just compare different instruments, I compared hundreds of examples and noticed trends that hold true across most if not all samples.

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:35 pm
by Donn
bbocaner wrote:Granted, maybe not as much out in the hall as what the player feels
I think if people took this distinction more to heart, there would be less disagreement over the subject.

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:30 pm
by bbocaner
bloke wrote:...and you also have no way of knowing (due to the material being different) if the material difference causes other unknown/unobserved (sure: consistent) differences in structure.
OK, sure. Let's suppose that gold brass needs to be annealed for 2 minutes longer at each step in the manufacturing process than yellow does and what I don't like about it is that it's been subject to additional annealing and not that it's made of gold brass. It'd be fun to know that was the case, but what I really care about is that if I order an instrument in yellow brass I know it's going to be more like those other yellow brass instruments I've tried before and less like those other gold brass instruments I've tried before. The gold brass is still the root cause.

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:42 pm
by Wyvern
Barry, Was there a quality checking card with your Wyvern tuba? If so, please let me know the batch number and serial number. I will then clarify with factory the metal used for the bell. What I will say is since we have started bell hardening, I detect less difference between gold brass bell and yellow brass bell tubas in their response and feel. The yellow brass now feels more like gold brass 'to me'.

Re: Wessex Wyvern review

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:20 pm
by bbocaner
Wyvern wrote:Barry, Was there a quality checking card with your Wyvern tuba? If so, please let me know the batch number and serial number. I will then clarify with factory the metal used for the bell. What I will say is since we have started bell hardening, I detect less difference between gold brass bell and yellow brass bell tubas in their response and feel. The yellow brass now feels more like gold brass 'to me'.
Thanks. Interesting. I don't remember if there was one or not, if there was one I don't have it anymore now. The serial number stamped on the valve casings is 051615 and it was in the batch that arrived in the US in late May, if that helps.