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Hi Lou,

Perhaps take a look at the Yamaha YBB- 621. It is a 3/4 size BBb that is a lot of fun to grab and play. You can see them show up used in good condition at a somewhat reasonable price too.

An alternative is the very close copy of the Yamaha 3/4 made by Weril. Contact Baltimore Brass or "Bloke" at Mid-South Music in Memphis (I think he carries Werils and is on the list here) and although I have never played one, many really like them and compare them favourably to the more expensive Yamaha.

Good Luck
Paul

I like the Conn 5J, or the older 4J if you can find them. It is a small bore BBb horn, 0.656", with good overall intonation. It isn't as small and light as some other horns, I would call it a 7/8 rather than a 3/4, but it is good if you are looking for a smaller bore. It is a slightly smaller cousin to the King 2341.

Lou Sikora wrote:As I am getting older (64 Years old) and seem to have less wind than I used to I am looking to go to a smaller bore Bflat 4 valve tuba than the St. Pete I currently play. I would like to find a good used horn but am wondering what make and model is most recommended. I'd appreciate any feed back you can give.

The Yamaha might be too much of a good thing, in that it's easier to blow but it has definite limits on how much sound it will produce.

I would suggest trying a new-style King 2341. I think it's quite easy to blow and much more efficient than a St. Pete. But it's big enough to keep up. I'd class it as a small 4/4, like Bloke's Mirafone 184. They are hard to find used, but they've been out for three or four years now some there should be as available as a 184.

Rick "who thinks the 621 frame made a better F tuba than BBb" Denney

Lou Sikora wrote:As I am getting older (64 Years old) and seem to have less wind than I used to I am looking to go to a smaller bore Bflat 4 valve tuba than the St. Pete I currently play. I would like to find a good used horn but am wondering what make and model is most recommended. I'd appreciate any feed back you can give.

I had a real setback, including lung surgery, and I started to the Mirafone 184 I had been using for chamber music as my main horn (mostly 'cause I can't fill any of my others, including my F). I'm very happy with it.

Glad you're still playing,Lou.I'm 63 and I found a 1940 King Eb tuba on E-Bay that suits me to a "t".

I was also looking for a smaller horn (than my Mira 186, which I love, but which seems to intimidate my quintet ) and the Miraphone 182 at Woodwind/Brasswind caught my eye. I read the one review on it but I would like to hear from more people on how this horn plays. I bought the Yamaha 621 that Alamo Music in San Antonio auctioned on E-bay last week, but my daughter, (who is 16 and and rocks on her tuba) may be in the market for a smaller horn sometime soon. I am also keeping my eye out for a 184 in BBb. (If the "resident genius" recommends it, I'm interested. Thanks, Rick.)

I'd second the recommendation for the Cerveny 683 Arion ("piggy"). I'd also been playing a St Pete and am finding the piggy much more comfortable to play, being 67 and only 5"8". Quality may be variable, but the one I got from David Fedderly at Baltimore Brass plays very well in all registers. With a .795 bore, it requires more wind than a Yamaha 621 but less than a St Pete. There's one up for grabs right now at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MEWA:IT.

I agree with Bloke.

The Meinl Weston 18 is a fine tuba. I tried a few and they all responded well, had a good sound and did not suck your lungs out (Baltimore Brass is a Meinl Weston dealer, not too bad of a drive for a weekend trip).

The Mirafone 184 is one of the standards for small tubas, I have personnaly never played one that I did not like.

good luck,
Mark

Hey bloke, you sure about the Miraphone - Mirafone thing? My 186 CC that I bought from brasswind in 2000 serial no 9000901, has MIRAFONE on the badging. I'm not accusing you of being wrong but I've always wondered about what the deal with that was.
Jim

Chriss2760 wrote:I am also keeping my eye out for a 184 in BBb. (If the "resident genius" recommends it, I'm interested. Thanks, Rick.)

Actually, it was not me who recommended the 184, with which I have no experience, but rather Bloke, whose recommendation should mean vastly more to you than mine.

I do recally hearing two separate quintets and a well-known soloist who used Miraphone 182's, and I always thought that instrument had a hard time getting its sound out. Could have been the players, of course, but it's the only sample I have to go on. The 184 is a different beast, and the CC versions are, like the 3/4 Rudy Meinl, highly regarded as smaller rotary tubas. Listen to Bloke, not me.

My statement was that on the occasions when I've tried to play a YBB-621, I've felt like the tuba bottled me up. I feel just the opposite playing the YFB-621, even though it also seems to have limited projection when used in a large ensemble.

Rick "not wanting to be misunderstood" Denney

bloke wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:I would suggest trying a new-style King 2341

That's a very good tuba indeed, but we really don't know what his issues are: "air", "size", or "weight"...

"air"...you might be correct

"size"...I've only played one of these, but it seemed "semi-enormous". Admittedly, I was standing up, holding it in the air, and playing a jazz solo with someone else's band.

"weight"...Would this be any less than a Russian tuba? (Many have commented on the thin gauge of Russian tubas.)

bloke "The bell of the new 2341 is 20 inches in diameter, and it looks like (??) the overall length is around 35 inches."

It was one of my bands that the Bloke played the solo in. It was also my tuba at that time. It is a large grab for most anyone. Water keys are also an issue if you are looking for something small and easy to get to.

I wonder if the Weril 3/4 BBb might be the answer?

Tom Mason

Two more options:

VMI 2103. 4/4 size. 22 lbs. Bore is .748, less than the Mira 186 and Cerveny 686, but still puts out a nice, full sound. Prices on these have dropped again at WWBW.

Jozef Lidl LBB-701. 3/4 size. 15 lbs.720 bore. great full sound for a smaller horn. well built Czech (not Cerveny) production. I bought one from Lee Stofer last August. Unfortunately, the U.S. distributor has dropped the line. Lee may be able to order you one direct from the CR.

bloke wrote:

Could this be something able satisfy this gentleman's need?

' too short.

Yeah, looks like a CC.

DP wrote:Dale "wonders why Miraphone resumed making 184's but only in CC" P.

Miraphone is making the 184 in BBb. It's just that no one is importing them to the U.S. You can have a shop like WW&BW special order a 184 BBb.

bloke wrote:They are rare, but the Mira*fone 184 BBb is a humdinger. Yeah, just like a lot of other horns, I have one of these "on the shelf" (not at all ready for prime time...yet), but you should be able to find one - if you keep your eyes open.

_________________________________
*f spelling - indicating "vintage" (California) distribution

I can vouch that the 184 CC (presumed similar) works well with a less-tha-average air supply. It doesn't sound like a BAT, but it still sounds like a contrabass tuba, and you can make it go with only 1.5 liters.

MA