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Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby zangerzzz » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:24 am

I'm lookin at 2 models for Traditional Jazz Gigs.
Audio-Technica ATM350UL Cardioid Condenser Horn Microphone - Long
Link
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ATM350UL" target="_blank

DPA d:vote 4099T
Link
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VO4099T" target="_blank

Do yall have any experience with these mic's or do you have a diffrent recommendation?
THNKZ!
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby BrooklynBass » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:55 am

There's a long, detailed thread about mic preferences around here somewhere.

I thought an SM57, in a sock, tossed down the bell was the "trad" way to go, no?
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby pecktime » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:44 am

I've owned and used the dpa4099, my advice is to get the 57 or similar dynamic mic.

You can throw the mic down the bell for that electric bass sound, or mount it above the bell for a more natural sound.

I bought a tuba mic clamp from Thomann in germany and it works great.

https://www.thomann.de/intl/nz/km_10000_mikrohalter_fuer_tuba.htm?ref=search_rslt_Tuba+mic+clamp_146103_2

Ime dynamics sound better than condenser microphones for tuba.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Tampaworth » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:39 pm

When you throw the socked mike down the Tuba (or Sousa) and it travels down to the bottom bow, is there any issue with tuning relative to how far the mike descends.... or does it just pick up what the instrument vibrates at no matter how far down?
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby BrooklynBass » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:55 pm

Tampaworth wrote:When you throw the socked mike down the Tuba (or Sousa) and it travels down to the bottom bow, is there any issue with tuning relative to how far the mike descends.... or does it just pick up what the instrument vibrates at no matter how far down?


While I see your thinking in that the relative geometry (length of tubing) of an instrument affects pitch... the pitch of a given note is determined at the mouthpiece and the resulting resonance remains consistent throughout the instrument. I don't know if I'm using the best syntax in my explanation, but in (slightly) fewer words...

No, a mic down the bell won't detect a different pitch than it would outside the bell. Theoretically, by addding mass inside the bugle, it could make the tuning a tad sharp overall, but this can be compensated for via the MTS.

For further proof of this concept, see tubist Wolff who has a tranducer in his mouthpiece(!). It works because the resonance remains constistant regardless of mic location.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby ppalan » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:07 pm

Hi,
I've recently been experimenting with a set up using a Shure Beta 52A kick mic https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Beta52 and a Kelly Shu Bass Drum mic mount. http://www.kellyshu.com/kelly_shu_composite.html I have used only with my Miraphone 186 CC so far and it seems to work well. I got the Shure mic for c. $100 on ebay and the Shu was about $50. I want to try using a short flexible goose neck on the mount to get even more adjustability as to distance from the bell. I don't want to sound like a bass which seems to be the result of simply dropping the mic in the bell. I play in a "German" brass band (Trumpets, Trombones, Euphs, Tuba and Drums). Our repertoire consists of traditional waltzes, polkas, ländlers, marches,etc as well as some big band, German pop stuff/party tunes, and a bit of Rock n Roll and Funk. Good luck with your search.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Mark » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:21 pm

I have an AMT that I like a lot: Applied Microphone Technology.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby bloke » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:14 pm

I wouldn't toss any microphone down the bell of any type of tuba, unless I desired for the sound to imitate that of all of the e.q. bars being pulled all the way to the left.

For several reasons that should seem fairly obvious, most tuba players probably should be very conservative about how much money they spend on any microphones that are taken into public venues.

ppalan wrote:Hi,
I've recently been experimenting with a set up using a Shure Beta 52A kick mic...

yep. 8)
I've used a conservatively-priced (same price range) "kick" mic - combined with a conservatively-priced wireless system, along this homemade aluminum adjustable support for it. I carefully fashioned the clamps so that (combined with the fact that they are soft metal) they fit nicely around a tuba's bell rim bead. Back when I was using this instrument regularly with this band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlmbvHtgLKI&list=PLrsRma9EsztI7N5TbVxw_8gTW7H4OgxHY , I would go into a Peavey amp with a 15" BW speaker. The sound was quite satisfactory (with conservative e.q. settings), in my judgement.

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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Beervangelist » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:36 pm

There is a previous thread -- under "amping up" I believe.

I have been working on dialing in my rig for the last couple of years, and I play in a somewhat loudish-rock setting; playing blues, soul, rock and funk. I think the complexity of your shopping will depend on where you're sending the mic and what type of tone you're going for.

While it may be traditional, that method of dropping a mic in a sock down the bell drives me crazy. It may be a familiar, stylized sound for some genres, but it lacks clarity and tone. Usually, it sounds like someone beat-boxing into a bass drum.

I have upgraded from a clip on Shure condenser mic into the very same Beta52 and Shu-mount that was mentioned earlier. I love it! From there, it's heading to my bass cabinet via a preamp, so I'm able to take advantage of the nice low-end it brings. If you're going straight to a PA, the Beta 52 is still nice, but it may need some EQ.

What I love about the Shu mount is that it's a simple and sturdy mic mount that would let me swap out any other mic I'd like, I just haven't needed to try any others. I like that the Beta 52 articulates in a way that I can adjust to various angles. I choose to point it at the flat of the bell, rather than the center. In my experience, the center is way too boomy. I get better tone catching the sound as it rolls off past the mic.

I'd love to hear from others on mic placement, but that's been my experience so far. It also catches less wind at outdoor gigs.

Shu + Shure Beta 52 Pictured

Click here for larger image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kveiu9k14vi5h ... 0.png?dl=0
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby David A. Goldfarb » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:18 pm

I've been very pleased with the Shure Beta 98 H/C clip-on condenser for trombone (my main instrument) on stage. I get much cleaner separation from other horns in the mix than a vocal mic or SM57 and little to no feedback even when I set the horn on the stand with the mic close to a monitor. As I venture into doubling on tuba, I'm working on something like this to get good mic placement:

Tuba,Shure98HC.jpg
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Those clamps are from an office supply shop for clipping a document to a laptop screen, attached to some thin modeling plywood, and the mic clips to the plywood. I should get my first chance to test it out on stage in a few weeks, but my tests so far sound good.

That SHU mount and kick drum mic look attractive. For now, though, any time I'm playing the tuba in the funk band, it's going to be a double, and most of the clubs we play barely have enough channels on the mixer for a whole 8-piece band, so one mic that I can move between horns is a better option.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby pecktime » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:21 pm

Image
Here's a photo of the K&M tuba clamp with a sennheiser dynamic
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Beervangelist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:32 am

+1 for the jacket!
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Bill Troiano » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:18 am

Any new advice on this guys? I've had it with dropping a Shure 58 down my bell, along with it's cord. As Bloke basically said, if you drop it far enough, it will sound more like a bass than a tuba. So at first, I was doing that along with using the foam windshield, mainly to keep it from banging around - very woofy. Then, I began tying it off around tubing (both on my sousaphone and my 186) so that it only goes down far enough to keep from falling out - better sound. Then, I discovered that it sounded better without the foam windshield, so I wrapped foam pipe insulation around the mic itself (6-7 inches long) and dropped it down far enough so that the foam touches the bell and the mic head without the windshield sticks out so as not to touch anything. It worked well last night on a 4 hour gig with my sousaphone and Friday night on my 186 with a quartet.

But, I've been increasingly more weary of tripping over the cord. Last night when I went to take a break and put the sousaphone down, the wire had wrapped itself around my sousaphone holder that I made to help support it. I tripped and everything would have come crashing to the stage if I somehow didn't pull off some fancy footwork dance steps to regain my balance and footing. Man, I was just lucky not to get hurt or destroy things. The band thought it was amazingly funny and I was shocked that I was still standing there holding the sousaphone.

Well, I've had it with that and mics with cords. I wanna go wireless, both for my sousaphone and my 186. When I get to sub with Ray and the Tubameisters, I get to use their sound equipment, which is a wireless Shure PGX-1. It sounds fine and is convenient at my end with just the mic clipped on the bell with a small wire connected to a box in my pocket. I don't know how it wirelessly connects on the the other end where something connects to a head unit. I don't know (and I never got to ask Ray) whether this needs Phantom power, a pre amp, or what. I don't even really know what that is.

So, what I'm asking is for (what's the latest) the best sounding tuba cordless mic with the least amount of hassle with extra pre amps.

Thanks all! I'm still standing!
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Tubainsauga » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:55 am

Image

I had this mounted inside the bell of my fibreglass sousaphone. I use an Audix D4 running through an SWR Spellbinder Blue bass amp. That amp has a proper preamp with an XLR-in.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Ben » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:19 am

Just played a show with a Shu bass drum mount, and my EV-RE20... It was fabulous. Ran it through a Pre/comp/ParaEQ and pretty much out to the amp/house... I had a few effects in between, but it was mostly just straight sound.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Bill Troiano » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:50 pm

I don't get this stuff, guys (SWR, Pre/comp/para,EQ). And, I'm not getting an amp. Other guys, or the house, has that stuff and I just plug into it.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby Ben » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:50 pm

The amp is just a monitor for the drummer and I when the guy running sound doesn't know what he is doing. I can at least get enough sound on stage that I know I am doing what I need to do with out working very hard for it..

The preamp kills a few feedback issues with a synthbass and overdrive effects. The compressor is just fun, and helps smooth out those oddities from me bouncing around on stage.
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby pjv » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:03 pm

I'm going to disagree with my colleagues;
DPA is far superior. I've used it a lot and most sound tech's worth a hoot stand behind it.

I own an AT ( which is cheeper) and is also great, just 2nd place.

You can't make your sound better when starting with a cheep mic. As far as I know (I could be wrong), an SM 57/58 doesn't even nearly cover the lows that are present in your sound. When you drop a mic in the bell you only get woofy. Almost everything that resembles tuba in your sound gets woofed out.

If you (or your sound tech) are into that trad jazz imitation bass sound then what you CAN do is to ALSO put a mic down your bell (in addition to a clip mic). That way you have the choice between clean and woofy, or a combination thereof.

A good mic is an investment but one which is very useful if you do a fair amount of miced playing. The clip mic's are feature weight light so you can alway carry it with your tuba without the worry of extra weight. Also because of this there is no extra weight on your axe when playing. They clip on so you don't have to play around with strings, socks tape or rubber bands.
Win=win
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby summittubaline08 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:41 pm

I use shure 57 wrapped in a small towel and then duct tape on top of the towel. I then hang the mic down the bell even with the lead pipe and run it through a 200 watt Peavey Max 112 bass amp. I get plenty of bass sound while also sounding like a tuba. Here is recording of myself using this set up. https://soundcloud.com/user-773717768/stthomas" target="_blank
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Re: Mic for Tuba Live Performance

Postby David A. Goldfarb » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:49 pm

Since my last post on this topic, I've played three funk-band gigs and a few rehearsals with the SHU mount and a Sennheiser e602 (original version) kick drum mic, plugged into a mic pre on the board, and it's been great. The sound separates clearly from the rest of the band and is easy to hear in the monitors. Gain can be set low enough with the mic on the bell that feedback isn't a problem. The SHU mount is also nicely suspended, so I can pick up and put down the tuba whenever I switch to/from trombone without the mic clunking around.
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