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Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:56 pm
by bort
Wade's unending Holton 345 thread got me to thinking -- has anyone ever tried putting a rotary valve block onto a Holton 345 (BBb or CC). It seems like the two versions of the B&S Neptune are basically the same, except one has a piston valve set, and one has a rotary valve set... with the end result being that the rotary tuba is basically a big piston tuba with rotary valves (at least that's my impression of it).
So... has anyone ever tried putting a rotary block on one of the big Holtons?
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:01 am
by Ben
stickied.
(link/invite/pics/audio - or it didn't happen)
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:14 am
by bisontuba
Hi-
Not to go off from the subject, but I just heard of an all original lacquered Holton 345 BBb from 1966 that will soon be available ( along with 2 Yamaha YBB-103 tubas). PM me for details ( not mine)....
Mark
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:30 am
by bort
tuben wrote:(Bort: MW made a one-off rotary 2265 for Bazinka, iirc).
Totally forgot about that! I seem to remember some grainy photo of this from a catalog scan...?
Wade, I'm with Robert and Ben -- if you do it, I want to see it!
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:53 am
by The Big Ben
the elephant wrote:I am looking at this. I won't actually *do* it, but I am mocking up some things out of curiosity. After that super secret Skunkworks stuff is done the 186 valve section will be going on one of my K-90s to make a CC rotary King. But the mockups (including soldering the lead pipe, slide and valves to the 345 bugle to do pitch and response test, if good enough, might be secretly videoed and might end up as a private video on YouTube that can only bee viewed by invitation.
And perhaps none of this was ever actually considered.
Move along. Nothing to see, here, folks...
The original video from Asleep at the Wheel- "Hot Rod Lincoln"
https://youtu.be/qUNX5vIdfFM" target="_blank
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:23 pm
by bort
Blah blah, practical design considerations...
That's interesting though. I guess I don't know the Neptune vs. 345 structural differences very well. Guess I just thought that since the Neptune has both versions, any American BAT could do something similar, relatively easy.
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:34 pm
by Tom
bort wrote:Blah blah, practical design considerations...
Guess I just thought that since the Neptune has both versions, any American BAT could do something similar, relatively easy.
3050 vs. 3050-RZ ?
Doesn't look easy to me.
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:40 pm
by bort
Tom wrote:bort wrote:Blah blah, practical design considerations...
Guess I just thought that since the Neptune has both versions, any American BAT could do something similar, relatively easy.
3050 vs. 3050-RZ ?
Doesn't look easy to me.
And this is why I don't do anything tuba-related for a living.
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:13 pm
by roweenie
I'm pretty sure the branches can be wrapped differently (ie, on the back as opposed to the front), giving the horn a lower profile on the front. Otherwise, the top (1st branch) could be positioned further back in relation to the bell stack, affording more room, too.
IIRC, the mouthpipe on the 3xx/105 in BBb is around 17" in length, including the receiver.
I have often thought about doing this exact thing, except two things stand in the way - 1) I don't have a 19mm rotary valve set, and 2) I have no particular interest in rotary valve tubas.
With all that said, I think the branch layout on the York 91 would make it a better candidate, FWIW.
Otherwise, I think it is quite doable (think .750 King rotary valve tubas) and would likely be an interesting and fun project.
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:16 pm
by bort
You forgot CC, Joe. It has to be CC.
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:12 pm
by THE TUBA
cktuba wrote:Not a Holton, but honestly I think I would prefer this...
https://youtu.be/tQKwu4YdR7E" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Details and pictures of that Martin
I was curious a few months ago and went on a search to find a good picture of József Bazsinka's big rotary MW 2165. This is the best one I could find:
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:52 pm
by bububassboner
I'm actually planning to build just that later this year. Should be a fun build.
Re: Rotary Holton 345 -- has it been attempted?
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:26 pm
by bort
Thanks for all the replies. That rotary 2165 is interesting. To my eye, I keep wanting to think it's a Fafner, but then I remember that it isn't. Wonder how it plays?
Chuck, you will have to let us know how it turns out. A photo or two during the process would be okay, too.
I should also make it clear that I'm not personally interested in this project. Was just thinking about my briefly-owned Neptune, and it made me curious. I do sometimes wish that I had kept that tuba longer and gave it a more proper trial.