TubeNet

As a graduating senior (in august), I'm struck with the delimma that many aspiring professional tubists hit - what to do after college?!? I've toyed with the idea of a post band, grad school (which i will eventually do anyways), or work and save up money / pay off my existing student loans. To anyone out there that knows anything about post bands - Are any branch's bands better than the rest? Do any branches have opennings now or in the near future?

Thanks for all of your help

Jeff

Jeff,
I was in the same dilemma at the start of the 80's. I did a year grad assistantship in music, did what I had to, and took computer classes. Worked for me, I ended up with a playing gig and a very flexible job besides that kept me pretty flush. My point is, you may need to supplement yourself until you get yourself established. Music does not have a very good "entry level" system going, there is not a formal union "apprenticeship" you can get, finding a teacher who will give you that if you don't have one will cost you more money, and some other professional job (besides public school teaching or the armed forces) has worked for more people than would care to admit.

Jeff Keller wrote: what to do after college?!?

cry.

SJSUW wrote:... every college program need to offer, and every music major need to take at least 3 credits/units of career advise/planning in the music world before completion...

Here's a first: I not only completely agree with what you just said, but I'll go even further. Such a course should be a weekly event for the duration of the music degree, just like recital. Bring in people who have entered various professions with their music degrees to talk about what they're doing, what OTHER skills (besides those that are required for the degree) they needed to do that job, and how they acquired those skills, how large or small the demand is for that profession, how much it pays, whether it allows the time and flexibility to also play, etc. I envision bringing in an instrument repairman one week, an organ-builder the next, a private-lesson teacher, a school music teacher, a band director, an arranger, a studio musician, a sound engineer -- help the students to glimpse the actual range of job prospects. One week per semester (at least) should include a frank talk about the very real fact that a LOT of applied music and performance majors will wind up selling real estate or managing restaurants -- challenging and rewarding work, but not related to making music.

I was fortunate to have gotten some of this education my freshman year (not through any formal channel, just by meeting and talking with some people who were working musicians), and realized that I was not preparing for the kind of life I really wanted to live. I changed majors, and made music a for-fun-only activity. I'm grateful for having learned what I learned, when I learned it.
__________________________
Joe Baker, who suspects University Music Departments would never allow such a program, because it would diminish interest in music degrees.

I can agree with the idea of students getting some career advice/planning, but I'm not prepared to completely agree with Joe. If they were required to attend some session every week, I believe this would devalue the entire process. I know the recital attendance requirement certainly devalued my attitude about going to concerts and recitals while I was an undergraduate. I will admit that having to attend helped me catch up on not paying attention, just in case I had somehow missed out on that during my regular classes.

I believe that I simply didn't "get it" while I was an undergrad. I was lucky that I knew the direction I was headed. I don't think I understood how all the pieces of the education process worked together. I'm afraid if I had been required to listen to people come in and tell me about the music profession/business, I would have probably just zoned out most of the time. Maybe I was uniquely one of the really stupid ones. I am quite certain I wasn't the only one, though.

I agree with Ray about the requiement of performance attendance probably accomplishing the opposite of what it was origionally intended for. I just finished my first year of graduate school at the Chicago College of the Performing Arts and I actually had that requirement. Here's what really pissed me off... I ended up passing up many quality Chicago Symphony Orchestra performance in order to make the Vocal Jazz Showcase that barely fit in my schedule so I could complete the requirement. As an aspiring orchestral tubist, I'm saying THERE'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM. Oh well at least there was only one year of that.

For the next topic, of there being a class. CCPA has a class that is somewhat close to what youall are talking about. It's an orchestral seminar class that is supplemented with an audition class. The program is geared for not only preparing musicians to take auditions, but also for orchestra life in general. Meaning weekly scessions with people from all parts ie alexander technitians, chamber musicians, doctors, orchestra managers, union people ect... While the class hasn't told me specifically what to do after school it has been very beneficial in answering many of my questions regarding work.

I myself are in your position financially... I have a few gigs here and there but not enough to support myself. I'm doin the grad school thing and may do more when I'm done, but otherwise I'm teaching and working a part time job to pay the rent.

I guess it's my way of paying dues.

Jim

I always thought the concert attendance requirement was there so that the student performances would have an audience, which otherwise they would not.

MA

Every school has different requirements for performance attendance. I did a bit of transfering around in undergrad so I've had to deal with 3 different programs.

Lawrence didn't have a requirement so I just went to all the concerts I felt would benefit me at the time.

Baldwin Wallace's program includes to lists of which you have to choose a total of 10 concerts between the two lists that include most of the student ensembles as well as some of the professional ensembles that came through. We were allowed to attend other professional ensemble concerts outside of school but student recitals didn't count for the requirement.

Northern Illinois University had the largest requirement per term at 15 concerts. Good news was anything that was at least college level counted. So if you were one of the 15 people to play a recital at the end of the term you could count on a huge audience of procrastinators.

CCPA has the lowest requirement of concerts to attend at 6, but are also the most selective about what ones I can go to and will not accept any outside professional concerts to complete the requirement. I have found this one to be the most difficult because I have been forced to go to concerts that do not benefit me as musician (the vocal jazz isn't worth attending in my opinion, although it's enjoyable to a point, doesn't do much to help me win a job)

Hope this clears where I'm comin from
Jim

Open your ears. If you don't think you can learn anything from vocal jazz then you must know everything about singing with your horn and your music. I sure don't. The goal is to make music - not always the same as playing an instrument. Take the time to listen to the Jacobs CD Portrait of an Artist. Phil

harold wrote:Get a job - not very helpful, but realistic.

That's exactly what he is asking---what kind of job, and how to get a job.

Hey,

Sorry most people decide to be negative and sarcastic. I think the problem isn't that college does a terrible job in preparing you for the real world but the fact that the "real" world isn't ready for another graduating tuba player. So, you have to be creative to make your living in music. Can it be done? Yeah, but it's hard. Teaching is the most viable way to make money right out of college. If there is something that most Universities dont prepare you for is this. How do you teach a great half hour lesson? To a beginner (on any instrument)? If you are creative and hit up every local teacher and music stores you'll find students. Be prepared to teach all of the brasses and percusion. Woodiwinds would be great but brass and percussion are a minimum IMO.

My advice? Pick a city where there is 1) Low cost of living 2) Decent pro player within driving distance 3) Good school systems 4) Lack of "quality" tuba players. Not quantity. The quality of ones playing always will outweigh the sheer number of established players. This will piss off locals but hey, it's not college and your not going to be hanging with any of the other local tuba players in the union. Is where you live a place that fits this category? Most people come up with Chicago, Los Amgeles and New York after college. But there enough towns now where the "local sub" is really lacking, there are great band programs in the schools and you don't have to pay $1000/month for a one bedroom apartment. Think about this. How many towns in the USA have really good quality secondary players? Is there teaching available for someone who wants it? I can thnk of a bunch of towns where there could be a good living for a college grad.

What about all of these other guys telling you to get a real job? I say forget'm! These will be the lean years. Pick up as many musical skills along the way. Be a great guy and work hard. Thats how you do it.

Dan

SJSUW wrote:Just curious...


By the way, is there any college out there that is actually offering a class on the issue of "what to do after you're done?"

A class... probably not many. However, your studio teacher or advisor probably has a wealth of information or at least knows where to point you. I would think that after 4+ years of college you would have an idea of where to go next.

I don't know where you are but in Texas you can have much success. There are sooo many jobs and people looking for quality teachers that you are bound to get a decent job at worst. It's worth a shot if you want to take a chance...






Ralph

danB wrote:My advice? Pick a city where there is 1) Low cost of living 2) Decent pro player within driving distance 3) Good school systems 4) Lack of "quality" tuba players. Not quantity.

[...]

What about all of these other guys telling you to get a real job? I say forget'm! These will be the lean years. Pick up as many musical skills along the way. Be a great guy and work hard. Thats how you do it.

Dan

+1! Don't settle for "something that probably isn't music related", you're a trained musician, so become a working musician. danB's post essentially describes what I did.. finished school in 2003, moved to a relatively large city where 2br apartments still exist for under $600/mo, there's a GREAT pro here with almost no secondary players around. I'd add a #5 to Dan's list and say find a music scene that is malleable.. that has COMPLETELY to do with audiences, and so the vibe of the town is very important in that respect(this is assuming, of course, that you want to make music and not just recite already-made music).

Your musical education's not over yet, for all intents and purposes it's only just begining. After 5 years in pursuit of a piece of paper that certifies I know how to perform the tuba, I found myself picking up some basses, which I hadn't seriously touched since high school. One tough reality to face is that the tuba is not marketable by itself. Period. I'm still a tubist, but if I want to be as active a musician as my drive pushes me to be then I have to find more outlets. Marketability and networking are AS important as skill, and you'll find this out immediately if/when you end up in a new town.

It's not the easiest life, but it sure is rewarding. It might be realistic to prepare yourself for the possibility of working a non-music job, but certainly don't resign yourself to that. Establish yourself as a musician in town and let your skills speak for themselves..don't be intimidated by those who couldn't do it, or gave up. While there are lots of people playing instruments out there, there are very few musicians on most music scenes. Be one of them, and have a blast!

SJSUW wrote:

funkcicle wrote:+1! Don't settle for "something that probably isn't music related", you're a trained musician, so become a working musician...

FUNK-dude, what you've said is exactly what they need to teach to music majors at school. Excellent, man!!

Thanks! The best advice that I never heard in college was "don't play underpaid gigs", and "don't have sex with your teenage students".

this one was my favourite... sheesh, they certainly didn't have teachers like her when I was in Catholic school!



well technically they "did", they just didn't look like her and were of a different gender

I would like to give a imple thanks to everyone that has contributed to this post. Even the "negative" posts have still been helpfull - what not to do! I'm sorry if i affend anywone by saying this BUT, I know that A LOT of musicians don't make it - I'm not them and they are not me. This post was a way to get some insight as to what I would consider doing for a living. I know that its possible that I might flip burgers for a little while until i get a job in music - but what i'm going to do different is don't give up. If any people out there are musicians in post bands I would like to hear about some of your experiences since this seems like the best option for me right now.

Thanks to ALL
Jeff

I was in a "post band." It was the 298th Army Band in Berlin back in the late 80s-early 90s. It was the time of my life. I did it before I finished my Bachelors degree. For me, it was a great time to play everyday (mostly) and figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I found it to be essential in my development as a player and as a person.

Musically some "post bands" are quite skilled... some are good at other things. I guarantee you that you will learn a lot that will help you later as a civilian. I think the most important music lesson I learned was to shut up, listen to the band leader (even if he is a nincompoop), and perform all music as if it were the most thrilling piece you have ever played (and rarely were they really all that thrilling). In short, I learned how to be a professional musician.

I am not sure if I grew musically in the 298th Army Band, but the experience has opened many doors for me. For example, I was able to get a college teaching gig (band director) right out of my Masters degree program largely because the search committee saw my military background as leadership experience. It is tough to get a teaching gig if you don't have experience.

The Army "Post Bands" could be a viable option to prepare you for going back to grad school... especially financially. If you really want to get into a great playing band you should try to get stationed at a MACOM band if there is an opening. These bands are the closest the Army has to the "Special" Bands in DC.

I hope this helps.

heres an idea for what to do after college... find a group of eight to ten of your best buddies and finish an eight gallon keg as fast as you possibly can (less than an hour, hopefully) then spend the next few weeks in drunken oblivion until your grades come in and you realize that you failed a lot of classes.

Then re-evaluate your performance degree, and decide you want to do ed. Stay two more pointless years at college to accomplish this because conducting only comes around every other year.

That seems to be the way music majors do it here.