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Hi All,

About a year ago, I purchased this York Monster Eb Tuba from a fellow member of this board. It played ok, but the valves were well worn, and as you can see, it was pretty beat up.... but it sounded great.

Only having limited funds to spend, a complete rebuild/restoration was out of the question (at least for now), but I wanted to fix it up. After much deliberation, knowing it HAD to have 4 valves, I undertook the projcect of the conversion you see in the following pictures.

Art H contacted me saying he had a 4 valve section from a BBb York that would probably work on the horn, complete with slides. I planned to use the BBb slides from the valveset to make the 4th branch, and use my original Eb 1-3 slides.


As it turned out, I ended up buying another set of 1-3 Eb York slides from Bloke when I made a trip to Memphis in late April to get the bell rolled out and pick up the bottom bow that I got from him. The man does great work as we've all seen from his Helicon and other projects, and he spent a couple of hours rolling and buffing my bell, and WOW it looks great! Here's a before and after of the bell.



Joe also let me go through his "York box" of odds and ends, and I bought a few crooks, caps, buttons, as well as the 1-3 Eb slides. I did bring home the bottom bow, but I'm saving it for the future replate.

I got home from Memphis and started laying out the valvesection on the horn. After a few (well, many) attempts, I came up with a workable layout that I think almost looks like it "grew there." Here's a pic of the wired up horn.


Now, it's off to my local repair shop, The Bandsmith, owned by Craig Heinrich. http://thebandsmith.com/york_eb_tuba.htm

Craig provided the expertise, experience and (not to mention) the skill to make this project all come together. We disassembled the rest of the major branches and everything went into the chem tank for cleaning. Craig then did some dent work on the outer branches. Again, funds were limited, so perfection was not the goal, but I wanted it nice to look at.


As things progressed, it became evident that the layout that I had worked out would not work. After truing up the 4th valve slides, we had major interference with the 3rd valve slide and also the exit from the valve section. We relocated the 3rd valve outer slide and used a slightly narrower crook from the Bb set to move it inward, and used a wider crook on the 4th to get the slide above the exit from the valves. Craig soldered up the valve section and soldered the outer branches and it was time to put it together.



Back at my place, I put it all together and the original leadpipe even lined right up in it's original location on the bell. I had been worried about that.




I put a mouthpiece in, and played it! ...dry valves, leaks at 3 joints which weren't soldered yet, and all. I couldn't believe how well it played! Very easy to play...most notes centered very well....and it still had "that" sound! So far, so good!Now it's back to Craig's shop for final soldering.

It's done for now. It plays beautifully. The intonation is, from what I hear, typical of fat Eb horns. i.e. the 5th partial. "g" in the staff can be lipped up to pitch, the "f" is better played 4th, etc, but it's manageable. It may be parts of many horns, but it's all York.

Many thanks to ArtH, Bloke, and Craig. I love it!

Eugene Whitmore






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That's a beautiful horn. Congrats!!







Ralph

But will it play in high pitch?

Thanks for all the comments!

The keyboard in the background is from a Steinway upright piano project that got put on "hold" due to the York project.

I really enjoyed seeing your project-on-a-budget. I don't know what you spent but it looks like you got a lot of bang for the buck.

I especially liked your before and after pictures. I bet it plays as good as it looks. Thanks for posting this.

Congratulations on your new York!

Lovely instrument. The original satin finish looks like it morphed to a bright, glossy silver finish. Was that achieved purely by buffing and polishing?

sjra wrote:Forgive me,but what is so special on a york?I did never see one in the Netherlands

York's reputation is primarily due to 2 special large CC tubas that are currently in use by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Those tubas have served as the model for many, if not most, of the large CC orchestral tubas sold today, including the York copy Hirsbrunners, Nirschl copies, and the old Holton large tubas.

The York tubas made by the original company in the early 20th century are generally great sounding horns when in good condition.

Lew wrote:

sjra wrote:Forgive me,but what is so special on a york?I did never see one in the Netherlands

York's reputation is primarily due to 2 special large CC tubas that are currently in use by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Those tubas have served as the model for many, if not most, of the large CC orchestral tubas sold today, including the York copy Hirsbrunners, Nirschl copies, and the old Holton large tubas.

The York tubas made by the original company in the early 20th century are generally great sounding horns when in good condition.

The York Eb monsters are prized for their 19.5-20 inch bells, often scavenged and used for cut CC horms.

looks great
wouldn't mind owning one of those myself

Bloke wrote:"pretty much de-dented" instruments look "semi-terrible" when they're polished to a mirror finish. Imagine what a dresser mirror would look like if the glass were "fairly straight". You'll need the whole nine yards (including unsoldering of sections and dent removal)

Looks from here like you did a really nice job on that bell (polish and all)!!

Thanks again, guys!

A couple of things...as far as I can tell, the horn was originally bright silverplate, not satin. The first picture I posted was from the seller and the horn was verry tarnished, which makes it look satin in the picture. After I cleaned it up, it was evident that there was no difference in the finish of inside of the bell and the ferrules, leading me to believe that the whole horn was bright silver.

However, the valve and slide section that I added is satin, the finish has a different texture, but regular silver polish shines it up pretty well. It gives the horn an interesting look.

As to Joe's "Mirror" comment, he's right. Have you ever noticed a dark colored car (especially black) with less than perfect bodywork under the paint? All the waves and imperfections in the surface "jump out." Same with plating a horn. After cleaning and polishing my horn in the condition I received it, the dents were much more noticeable. It's all about reflection.

While Joe was working on my bell he commented that "a big difference happens in a rather short time...getting it perfect takes a lot longer." Knowing my budget all too well, I asked him to stop "at the point of diminishing returns." He's a great guy! He even let me "toot" a few notes on his Helicon! Wow!

Some of you have asked and I don't mind saying that my investment (including purchase price) is under $1500. By doing the parts of the projcet that I was capable of handling, I think I increased my "bang for the buck."

Thanks for all your interest!


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It's my impression that the most difficult part of this process if it were to be repeated would be to find the appropriate 4-valve block. Or am I wrong? Are these intact 4-valve blocks just sitting around in the back of repair places? What's stopping repair people from converting the multitude of large vintage $300-600 3valve Eb tubas into $2000-3000 4-valve Eb tubas?

jacobg wrote:It's my impression that the most difficult part of this process if it were to be repeated would be to find the appropriate 4-valve block. Or am I wrong? Are these intact 4-valve blocks just sitting around in the back of repair places? What's stopping repair people from converting the multitude of large vintage $300-600 3valve Eb tubas into $2000-3000 4-valve Eb tubas?

There's probably a lack of horns and players willing or able to budget the time, materials and money.
In the vintage ad below, the fourth valve listed for an extra $15 (US Dollars). A three-valve horn in brass listed for $100, and a sandblasted silver finish listed for $120. The ad specifies a 19 inch bell diameter, but many later horns were almost 20 inches.

Link to York monster Eb ad (pdf file). (Best viewed at 200-300% in your Adobe or other pdf reader.)

Small-bore top-action York BBb tubas do appear now and then on Ebay. I took the valve set off of mine several years ago and replaced it with a larger-bore front-action machine, resulting in a really magnificent tuba. I saved the old valve set, hoping that someone with and Eb tuba might find it useful; it's way too small for a BBb tuba, in my opinion. The first guy I had in mind for it was playing a huge Conn Eb with 3 pistons. He retired and moved away. The second prospect was a left-handed one-armed man playing a front-action Eb (very well!) by reaching over the top. He considered using my valveset, but then bought a St Pete that was modified to play left-handed.
I am very pleased that my valveset has finally found a good home after years of neglect and rejection.

Jonathantuba wrote:Having never heard a "York Monster Eb Bass", how does their sound compare to say a Besson Sovereign? Are they more contra-bass sounding?

I have recently been playing a fairly new Besson 983 and the York has a sound that I describe as "more colorful" or "thicker." ...not that the Besson was "thin."

I'm meeting with Ben Pierce http://www.benpierce.com/bio.html on Sat., so I'll know how it really sounds after he playes it.